What are the pros & cons of high-efficiency horns?

[morricab]

They may be Davis Acoustics16TK drivers with different cone material and a dome added, ie. built to AG spec.

On the Jadis Eurythmie??

 

[Blue58]

On the Jadis Eurythmie??

No, the AG Duo. Sorry to confuse anyone.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

No, the AG Duo. Sorry to confuse anyone.

Trio?

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Here is the driver in question. Apparently it is 109dB in the horn:

 

[Tango]

@Audiophile Bill. My mid bass is 11" Supravox Alnico. Ralph the designer likes to keep the moving mass low 16.5g. to 18g. for fastness. This Supravox is super loght for 11".

As for why 4001 not 4003. He said he wants alnico. 4003 is not alnico. And his horn has 2" exit not 1.5" of 4003. I think commercial production is in consideration here too since you cannot gather 4003 in bulk. It is out of production long ago. He believes 4003 is more suitable for 2-way nonetheless.

 

[Blue58]

Here is the driver in question. Apparently it is 109dB in the horn:

Duo Omega mid driver.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Duo Omega mid driver. View attachment 57994

What is the Trio mid bass driver, Barry? Any idea.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

@Audiophile Bill. My mid bass is 11" Supravox Alnico. Ralph the designer likes to keep the moving mass low 16.5g. to 18g. for fastness. This Supravox is super loght for 11".

As for why 4001 not 4003. He said he wants alnico. 4003 is not alnico. And his horn has 2" exit not 1.5" of 4003. I think commercial production is in consideration here too since you cannot gather 4003 in bulk. It is out of production long ago. He believes 4003 is more suitable for 2-way nonetheless.

Alnico is known for great tone, but there are different quality of neodymium and 4003 has better tone than 4001
reason why neod replaced alnico was a supply problem and also nedym was more practical in pro world due to lighter magnets...
however 4003 weigh in like an alnico anyhow...

 

[kodomo]

@Audiophile Bill. My mid bass is 11" Supravox Alnico. Ralph the designer likes to keep the moving mass low 16.5g. to 18g. for fastness. This Supravox is super loght for 11".

As for why 4001 not 4003. He said he wants alnico. 4003 is not alnico. And his horn has 2" exit not 1.5" of 4003. I think commercial production is in consideration here too since you cannot gather 4003 in bulk. It is out of production long ago. He believes 4003 is more suitable for 2-way nonetheless.

We have the same driver for the midbass, but mine is modified. Our midbass horns are different although they look very similar. I

 

[Blue58]

What is the Trio mid bass driver, Barry? Any idea.

??You got me there Bill, it’s quite correctly the one in your thumbnail.??

 

[Audiophile Bill]

We have the same driver for the midbass, but mine is modified. Our midbass horns are different although they look very similar. I

Hi Sami,

Did you consider either a compression driver (such as the small number similar to 555 with lower extension to 80hz) or a smaller 8” driver for your mid bass? I noticed Romy using the Fane Studio 8M into 4” throat / rear chamber - so basically using it as a compression driver.

Just curious to see so much variation on this topic. It seems to me one of the key drivers to get right as it anchors it all in a multi-way.

 

[morricab]

I've seen the driver, I forget exactly what it is, but it's a wideband cone driver... nothing extraordinary.

The Jadis Eurythmie II is using:

Mid-Low (180–700Hz). "The Mid-Low horn uses the same manufacturing technology as the bass cabinet, bent plywood inner sides proper to Jadis." That is to say, proprietary to Jadis. "It is driven by the famous 6½" from Audax which is notable by its moving mass of only 9.2 grams. It fits perfectly for this use, the efficiency reaching 30% (12 times more than with an isodynamic driver.)"
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/jadis-eurythmie-ii-loudspeaker-page-2#uAMaxhRrpVmDFXBb.99

Now, whether or not this is an aerogel or not I am not sure but it is clearly an Audax (no surprise as it is a French speaker and Audax makes quite good drivers).

 

[morricab]

AUDAX PR170M0 https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/pro-sound/audax-pr170m0-6.5-midrange-100db/

 

[kodomo]

Hi Sami,

Did you consider either a compression driver (such as the small number similar to 555 with lower extension to 80hz) or a smaller 8” driver for your mid bass? I noticed Romy using the Fane Studio 8M into 4” throat / rear chamber - so basically using it as a compression driver.

Just curious to see so much variation on this topic. It seems to me one of the key drivers to get right as it anchors it all in a multi-way.

Having the throat smaller is better and mine also is. Here is the detail of my throat. It drops down to that size but I still use the supravox 285-2000 alnico. The dust cap of it is also taken off... There is also reactance annuling that I have done by adding slices to mid-bass back chamber and measuring the impedance and finding the perfect balance. Altogether, this way the midbass sound much more fuller and gives a better response.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Having the throat smaller is better and mine also is. Here is the detail of my throat. It drops down to that size but I still use the supravox 285-2000 alnico. The dust cap of it is also taken off... There is also reactance annuling that I have done by adding slices to mid-bass back chamber and measuring the impedance and finding the perfect balance. Altogether, this way the midbass sound much more fuller and gives a better response.

Hi Sami,
I have been considering the Supravox silver coil field coils (as 2x15 inch woofers a side in a 2 way OB with a coaxial CD horn above and then OB subwoofers running with 4 x 15 inch per side). Had you thought about using the Supravox field coils as an option or heard of any feedback on experiences with using these over using the alnico Supravoxs.

Cheers
Tao

 

[morricab]

Hi Sami,
I have been considering the Supravox silver coil field coils (as 2x15 inch woofers a side in a 2 way OB with a coaxial CD horn above and then OB subwoofers running with 4 x 15 inch per side). Had you thought about using the Supravox field coils as an option or heard of any feedback on experiences with using these over using the alnico Supravoxs.

Cheers
Tao

Haven’t heard the field coils but the Alnico ones are superb . Speaking of OB, I heard Suoravox’s own OB speaker, which uses 2x the 285GMF model per side and sounds excellent with a lively and punchy sound...a real alternative to horns...but it is quite wide to get good bass. The 165GMF is probably one of the better 6 1/2 inch drivers out the with 96db sensitivity and their 1 inch metal dome tweeter sounds sweet and airy. I am sure those 40cm woofers are good given what I have heard from this brand.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I was thinking holistically the field coils would be a closer match to a horn. Also then I can use the variable applied voltage for the field coils to fine tune the cross up to the horn from the woofers.

 

[bonzo75]

I was thinking holistically the field coils would be a closer match to a horn. Also then I can use the variable applied voltage for the field coils to fine tune the cross up to the horn from the woofers.

Wolf of von langa made very famous field coil bass drivers. The older Altec were Allnico but before they had field coil bass drivers which were supposed to be very expensive.

There is a guy in Norway with 5 16 inch Altec woofers on either speaker in open baffle for midbass, going to a horn loaded bass section. Will try to visit sometime next year.

Keep in mind though that with every pair you add in parallel the impedance halves

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

he has a double version of my sub horns too and an A80 delivered by me

there´s another guy with even more of same drivers in SLOB ala Pass too, if I remember correctly 5+5 facing each others in each channel...no subs...

 

[christoph]

Keep in mind though that with every pair you add in parallel the impedance halves

That is why you would wire two in series and those bundles then in parallel