Pros and Cons of Sealed Listening Rooms

[KeithR]

we aren't reproducing concert halls in our home, gents.

 

[Ron Resnick]

we aren't reproducing concert halls in our home, gents.

What is your take on this subject, Keith? Would you prefer it if you could "seal" your living room listening room?

 

[steve59]

I bought my kid a bedroom stereo for Christmas when he was 12 or 13 and in his 10x10x8’ room Those little 61/2” woofers in the bose two ways were shaking the walls while my reference speakers that could output to 25 hz were in the room open to the house and in comparison sounded castrated!

It can take so long to find that one spot that reinforces the bass that explains why most manufacturers offer several sizes of the same model. at the end of the day aren’t all these questions all part of putting together a musical system with every piece dependant on another beginning with the room?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

we aren't reproducing concert halls in our home, gents.

ok. hummmmm?

then.......what ARE "we" doing?'

that IS exactly what I'M doing (trying to do). no illusions that i've fully succeeded. but i'm down that road a ways.

 

[KeithR]

ok. hummmmm?

then.......what ARE "we" doing?'

that IS exactly what I'M doing (trying to do). no illusions that i've fully succeeded. but i'm down that road a ways.

you've created sound for 1 listener - I don't think that is the same goal as a concert hall.

 

[KeithR]

What is your take on this subject, Keith? Would you prefer it if you could "seal" your living room listening room?

Ron, I look at this differently now than a few years ago. I want to share audio with friends and my significant other therefore don't prefer a dedicated room which is less conducive to that goal. More than likely any living space in a home will be open so...

It's not an acoustic question for me but a social one. I fully respect those who want to go down the other path, just a matter of preference. Also, folks with kids might have a totally different viewpoint.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

you've created sound for 1 listener - I don't think that is the same goal as a concert hall.

not sure how the multiple listener rationalization entered this discussion......but.....i have 7 seats in my room always, and as many as 30 at certain times. but that is besides the point. my goal is to = the ideal concert hall listening musical perspective as close as possible......for one. the rest happens how it happens. big music in my room for sure becomes a 'concert' type event when i do have visitors. it's powerful that way. those moments are the highest form of listening in my experience. it's more than just music. a collective musical energy. like a concert hall.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I ll probably get almost the whole audiophile community on my back now lol.
But if i spent that kind of money on a room i certainly want it better then some of the big concerthalls ive been too, i like smaller halls more ,more upfront
The unamplified sound was quite dull overdampned to be honest , probably better if you re more in the front seat.
But that was my expirience.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I have certainly heard systems a couple of times which sounded more entertaining

 

[andromedaaudio]

Because of certain mike positions that are used to record the piece
Its possible one can gets a better portrayal of the actual piece then when sitting in the back somewhere .
Of course the live event feeling is missing but nontheless

 

[KeithR]

not sure how the multiple listener rationalization entered this discussion......but.....i have 7 seats in my room always, and as many as 30 at certain times. but that is besides the point. my goal is to = the ideal concert hall listening musical perspective as close as possible......for one. the rest happens how it happens. big music in my room for sure becomes a 'concert' type event when i do have visitors. it's powerful that way. those moments are the highest form of listening in my experience. it's more than just music. a collective musical energy. like a concert hall.

because concert halls have different design goals - multiple levels, much further away from the stage, a massive pipe organ at times, and 1,000 people. they don't focus on 1 seat in those designs. yours does, despite having some extra chairs.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

because concert halls have different design goals - multiple levels, much further away from the stage, a massive pipe organ at times, and 1,000 people. they don't focus on 1 seat in those designs. yours does, despite having some extra chairs.

those aspects of concert halls are not relevant to my thinking at all. i'm only interested in the personal listening parts. the perspective will be recording dependent. and my system headroom is capable of reproducing any sort of musical signal that can be put on a recording.

 

[microstrip]

(...) Would you prefer it if you could "seal" your living room listening room?

IMHO each case will be a different case. I have taken frequency responses of speakers with open /closed windows and doors. They show perceptible differences, I prefer to listen with the open door. My room walls are thick stone and compact brick.

 

[LenWhite]

I built a dedicated listening room in 2015 using Acoustic Frontiers to design the room acoustics. The following is a summary of what was done. My audio system sounds amazing in this room, especially compared to the open FR where I used to listen.

The media room acoustic "foundation" consists of an isolated wall system comprised of 130 Kinetics IsoMax clips attached to 1-1/2" furring strips nailed to CBS blocks on all four walls. 440 linear feet of 25mm hat channel is supported by the isolation clips. R-11 open faced fiberglass (3-1/2" thickness) fills the empty areas between the CBS walls and drywall. Soundboard XP damped drywall is attached to the hat channel. Acoustic sealant seals the areas between the top, bottom, corner areas of the damped drywall.

The ceiling utilizes Soundboard XP attached to the ceiling joists. The media room attic has R-38 fiberglass insulation. A knee-wall with attached R30 fiberglass insulation separates the media room attic and the original structure interior attic area.

Acoustic Frontiers incorporated my existing Rives Audio ceiling "clouds" and using room dimensions and frequency measurements specified the interior room acoustic products and locations. The acoustic design creates a flatter frequency response; lowers the room reverberation time; and provides bass trapping. Clarity, soundstaging, and imaging are all improved while keeping the room as live as possible.

The interior acoustic panel positioning:
- Ceiling: (4) 6'x6' wood frame acoustic "clouds" hung with all thread from the ceiling joists room centered. Each wood frame consists of (4) 2'x4' RPG BAD panels supported by the frame support structure. UltraTouch R19 sound absorption batts are placed on top of the structure.
- Front wall: (2) 39"x59" RPG Modex type 1 plates (outward positions), (2) 39"x59" RPG Modex broadband panels (inward positions). Panels with 6" spacing except at side walls, hung 23" from floor.
- Side walls: (3) 2'x2' RPG BAD ARC panels @ the L/R wall first reflection points; (3) 2'x2' Listen Audio natural birch diffusers @ the L/R 2nd reflection points; (3) 2'x2' Listen Audio natural birch diffusers flanking the listening positions on the R sidewall and behind the listening positions on the L sidewall. All panels hung 18" from floor.
- Rear wall: (1) 6'x6'x12"d absorber box (R38 fiberglass filled) centered. The existing floor standing RPG BAD panel templates wrapped with acoustic cloth attached to the front of the absorber box. The absorber box is hung 26" from the floor.

 

[kach22i]

you've created sound for 1 listener - I don't think that is the same goal as a concert hall.

Correct, not the same goal but do not fail to see the similarity.

This topic is much like enjoying a good cigar. Outdoors much of it is wasted, indoors can be stifling, open the door a crack and perfect.

 

[kach22i]

I bought my kid a bedroom stereo for Christmas when he was 12 or 13 and in his 10x10x8’ room Those little 61/2” woofers in the bose two ways were shaking the walls while my reference speakers that could output to 25 hz were in the room open to the house and in comparison sounded castrated!

It can take so long to find that one spot that reinforces the bass that explains why most manufacturers offer several sizes of the same model. at the end of the day aren’t all these questions all part of putting together a musical system with every piece dependant on another beginning with the room?

This reminds me of the old car stereo analogy.

 

[kach22i]

I ll probably get almost the whole audiophile community on my back now lol.
But if i spent that kind of money on a room i certainly want it better then some of the big concerthalls ive been too, i like smaller halls more ,more upfront
The unamplified sound was quite dull overdampned to be honest , probably better if you re more in the front seat.
But that was my expirience.

Kerry town music hall in Ann Arbor is in an old house. I've heard some good shows there, very personal.

 

[Folsom]

Why is it good to "pressurize" the room, Al? Is the BSO hall pressurized during performances?

Can't a listening room with large openings achieve the same low-frequency projection as a sealed listening room by adding subwoofers?

How does this relate to the notion that some believe that the most realistic and natural reproduction of sound would be achieved if we put our stereos in an open field?

Well, again because "pressurized" is nonsense, I can explain this easily. Al's speakers have a simple first order crossover. They can produce bass articulately but they don't have a proper BSC crossover to balance them out for the room. So in order to mate well with the tweeter you end up with a bit of baffle step loss. When Al keeps the room closed it helps add a bit more gain to the woofer's octaves.

I bought my kid a bedroom stereo for Christmas when he was 12 or 13 and in his 10x10x8’ room Those little 61/2” woofers in the bose two ways were shaking the walls while my reference speakers that could output to 25 hz were in the room open to the house and in comparison sounded castrated!

It can take so long to find that one spot that reinforces the bass that explains why most manufacturers offer several sizes of the same model. at the end of the day aren’t all these questions all part of putting together a musical system with every piece dependant on another beginning with the room?

Similar thing but reversed. The small speakers got noticeable room gain. They're in a pretty small room. Your big speakers in a larger room don't get the same kind of gain, and have very different varying modes & nodes.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

the word 'pressurized' i think is a misnomer. it infers a sealed room is required for solid bass. it's just not that simple. like some have mentioned, they prefer their door to their closed room open, or a little open, for best balance.

what we need is bass 'hook up'; where the power of the bass is evident in the music. where you have the immediacy, pop, kick and ambient authority in the bass. that will likely be as effected by the structure of the room (floor, walls and ceiling) around the speakers as whether the room is actually closed up. it all matters. and bass 'hook up' is also a function of speaker driver compliment to room size. lots of variables.

maybe Ron meant 'sealed' literally in his OP. but literally 'sealed' is not any sort of attribute i desire.

 

[andromedaaudio]

The best room i ve heard to date , (im repeating myself lol i ve told it before) .
Was at a dealer who is now out of business in nijmegen
I ll always remember when they were setting up an avalon ascendent on a all levinson system and let it play for a couple hours before the client came , (half a day on the juice.)
I could come in and listen by myself while they knew i didnt have the money then .
It was a trapezium shaped room well isolated but with not that much treatment certainly not overdampned .
When that thick double glass door shut you could feel the music everywhere , it was like the whole room was filled with energy .
No sound would come in totally private relaxed listening
I m gonna measure that room at some time , its now part of a furniture shop.
Might come in handy when i will do some thing myself.
The speakers werent even big, its just a 2.5 system 2 7 inch woofers.
I ve heard the same speakers playing just average in other rooms .
Thats when i knew the room is ......

Ps it was only the door that was glas it had no windows of some sort , plus it could be covered with a curtain.