The Mysterious Case of the Listening Window! By Jeff Day, Positive Feedback

[morricab]

Sorry, Tao. "Mythologizing"...That's weak.

My behavioral economics analysis is rock solid. I am sorry you don't like what I have to say...

As to posting systems, I am not looking for anyone's approval on social media... so I am not vomiting my favorite brands all the time. I just bring up Zu to the arrogant audiophiles to get a belly laugh. My top system is a bi-amped MBL system with Symphonic Line. For guys looking for organic solid state, it's the top of the mountain, but I don't need to vomit that either. I also have killer B&W stand speakers. Long term goal is MBL extremes in 1 room and killer horns in another.

Can’t live with MBLs. I hear a metallic coloration that I can’t unhear.

 

[spiritofmusic]

That's Caesar cursing in the background Lol.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Can’t live with MBLs. I hear a metallic coloration that I can’t unhear.

I found MBLs stunningly realistic and dynamic for the first few hours I listened to them. I found them amazing sonically in many ways.

I still find them amazing sonically in many ways, but, after the initial euphoria wore off, I began to find them bright and slightly metallic sounding. Because of this they are not my cup of long-term tea.

For lucky people who don't hear them this way, MBLs are many audiophiles' top choice in loudspeakers.

 

[morricab]

You are unable to present any solid data on this hobby except your myopic view created by your view of the magazines you hate and a few shows. You are focused only in the US, completely ignoring the world markets high-end trends. What you call reality is mostly your imagination.



The luxury market is a small niche created by the current social-economical conditions. It is used mainly for marketing by most manufacturers and thanks to the crazy investment results in a general improvement in other lower cost products. Many of my friends (and now their children ...) who owned miserable sounding systems now have very musical systems using, for example, Devialet equipment with good speakers.



The high-end is an extremely subjective matter. It is not possible to get an objective information on it that pleases every one. This happened since its appearance and will go on forever. It is not possible to report accurately on an hobby of small differences and preferences, particularly at a time people knowledge comes from short reports on the internet. IMHO gear comparisons are an extremely unreliable, biased and unfair way of influencing the consumers. YMMV.

BTW, if you find all this disgusting, what is your objective in this forum?

Good sounding and Devialet do not belong in the same sentence. Adequate for the non-serious listener would work though.

 

[caesar]

If you do not read TAS how could you possibly purport to make your original statement with any authority or accuracy?

Your reply above does not remotely prove your statement that "most reviewers there [at TAS] have Magico as a reference." Your original statement implied that a majority of TAS reviewers either purchased Magico speakers or retained them on some long-term loan basis.

Your examples above referred to TAS reviewers who have at one time or another reviewed Magico speakers. Reviewing speakers is not at all the same as having speakers in a reviewer's list of associated components on a long term basis.

Plus you have listed less than half of the TAS reviewers.

Would you agree that your original statement was, if not false (which I think it was) at least ill advised?

PS: I agree that TAS's numerous favorable reviews of Magico speakers likely has been highly beneficial to Magico's sales.

Hi Ron,
I clarified for you what I meant in terms of the industry influence scale. The other guys, their b and c level talent, may as well be a rounding error to compared to the others I menitoned.

Now what I find really ill-advised is for TAS to hype up stuff and shout louder than anyone else why something is the best . Every month - without any critical analysis of the trade-offs.

How many people, who value their time and money, got robbed of it because of TAS hype? It takes time and money to visit a dealer or go to a show....

And how many guys bought a component because of the hype that didn't fit into their system? Holistic thinking may help them also..

I would also advise TAS to start comparing gear - no excuses, they can get what they want from desperate manufacturers.

In present form, their readers can better guess what piece of gear I'm tapping with my knuckles than the one they are writing about.

Without comparing gear just reinforces the popularity of the incumbents in the industry and hurts innovation.

 

[caesar]

BTW, if you find all this disgusting, what is your objective in this forum?

Find gear to buy. DUH

It's very challenging if you are not a wilson fan

 

[morricab]

I found MBLs stunningly realistic and dynamic for the first few hours I listened to them. I found them amazing sonically in many ways.

I still find them amazing sonically in many ways, but, after the initial euphoria wore off, I began to find them bright and slightly metallic sounding. Because of this they are not my cup of long-term tea.

For lucky people who don't hear them this way, MBLs are many audiophiles' top choice in loudspeakers.

Exactly my feelings Ron.

 

[caesar]

There are no herds, just people with different preferences who want to enjoy better sound and music.

Let's call it the bandwagon effect, since your feelings have been hurt. But it doesn't change the underlying fundamentals.

No matter what your walk of life, choose to ignore reality at your own risk. It will certainly assert itself.

But one clear reality in this hobby is that people say they want good information and say they think for themselves. But just as we find people on the right tuning into Fox News or people on the left tuning into MSNBC, people seek information that will support rather than undermine their existing beliefs.

Same for the wilson fanboys. There is very little intellectual curiosity or integrity in this hobby.

 

[caesar]

Can’t live with MBLs. I hear a metallic coloration that I can’t unhear.

Sorry, I love them with my Symphonic Line Krafts.

 

[microstrip]

Good sounding and Devialet do not belong in the same sentence. Adequate for the non-serious listener would work though.

I do not feel so, but the comment can be interesting. What is your definition of serious listener?

 

[caesar]

Please elaborate further on the dumb vs the smart and why the dumb are killing this hobby. Best.

Hi Dude, if you re-read my post above, the dumb herd - no, let's call it the bandwagon, since people's feelings are getting hurt, has concentrated success in several brands of electronics and box speakers, in particular. Everyone else whose preference doesn't meet that are out of luck.

Innovation has suffered. Our hobby is poorer and less diverse.

 

[cjfrbw]

Dumb Herd or Smart Herd, well heeled audiophiles finance a lot of open ended research with exotic alternatives and they also finance a lot of stunning audio art, whether it is ultimately functional or not.

I like watching the show as much as anybody. My own home system is as much ecstasy as I can stand without holing up all Howard Hughs with it. The rest of the spectacle is frosting on the cake.

Where would audio shows be without Wilsons, Magicos, MBLs, Cessaros, Aires Cerats, Vox Olympias etc.?? Where else would I be able to hear a full expression of the 45 tube on an all horn system? These things are works of art that the manufacturers have sunk their lives and sensibilities into. The more rarified and intensely craftsman, the more expensive.

There's also the 'trickle down' when the oligarchs tire of their toys and move on. If you are a canny shopper, you can acquire yesterday's fashions at a fraction, and they don't sound any less good.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi Ron,
I clarified for you what I meant in terms of the industry influence scale. The other guys, their b and c level talent, may as well be a rounding error to compared to the others I menitoned.

Now what I find really ill-advised is for TAS to hype up stuff and shout louder than anyone else why something is the best . Every month - without any critical analysis of the trade-offs.

How many people, who value their time and money, got robbed of it because of TAS hype? It takes time and money to visit a dealer or go to a show....

And how many guys bought a component because of the hype that didn't fit into their system? Holistic thinking may help them also..

I would also advise TAS to start comparing gear - no excuses, they can get what they want from desperate manufacturers.

In present form, their readers can better guess what piece of gear I'm tapping with my knuckles than the one they are writing about.

Without comparing gear just reinforces the popularity of the incumbents in the industry and hurts innovation.

"Robbed" is a grossly exaggerated (mis)characterization. How many people who purchased audio systems based on TAS recommendations have you interviewed, and out of your data set of interviewees how many of them described their resulting feelings as having been "robbed"? Please provide the data underlying this assertion.

Your confidence that people who purchase systems based on TAS recommendations are unhappy with the sound of their systems is sheer arrogance, and, I bet, unsupported by hard evidence.

Why do you feel the need to spew unsubstantiated rants as facts? If you can't support what you are alleging with evidence, then don't post it.

I agree with you that comparative reviews would be much more interesting and helpful than the non-comparative reviews most TAS reviewers write. But this is why I am such a fan of Don Saltzman; many of his reviews are comparative. Same with Michael Fremer's reviews.

 

[LL21]

"...There's also the 'trickle down' when the oligarchs tire of their toys and move on. If you are a canny shopper, you can acquire yesterday's fashions at a fraction, and they don't sound any less good.

Hear, hear...literally! Took me 8 years to wait until I could find the XLFs or Arrakis at the right price and ultimately went XLF...and before them, we had the X1s for 10 years...and those were already 16 years old when I got them. Not only no complaints here...actual gratitude the seller was happy to upgrade to the XVXs!

Just ordered a pair of Sony MDR-Z1R headphones (supposedly Like New) for £348 when the UK retail is £2000. Of course, lets see if as advertised!

 

[cjfrbw]

Ultimate dumb herd would be the Croesus who hears his favorite 'girl with guitar' piece at an audio show, then orders a dozen high end installations for his scattered villas, then never listens to them. I do wonder how many of the ne plus ultra installations are seldom if ever heard.

At least blog participants are actively listening to their stuff.

 

[Al M.]

Hi Dude, if you re-read my post above, the dumb herd - no, let's call it the bandwagon, since people's feelings are getting hurt, has concentrated success in several brands of electronics and box speakers, in particular. Everyone else whose preference doesn't meet that are out of luck.

And some people from the dumb herd also think that all box speakers have the same flaws.

Box speaker is not the same as box speaker. But that's a nuance that is apparently above the pay grade of your posts, Caesar.

 

[Lagonda]

Exactly my feelings Ron.

You guys are just missing the softening of the treble that you are conditioned to from the tube amps that normally drive your speakers

 

[microstrip]

Hear, hear...literally! Took me 8 years to wait until I could find the XLFs or Arrakis at the right price and ultimately went XLF...and before them, we had the X1s for 10 years...and those were already 16 years old when I got them. Not only no complaints here...actual gratitude the seller was happy to upgrade to the XVXs!

Just ordered a pair of Sony MDR-Z1R headphones (supposedly Like New) for £348 when the UK retail is £2000. Of course, lets see if as advertised!

Are you sure it is not just a set of improved headphone cables?

 

[the sound of Tao]

Let's call it the bandwagon effect, since your feelings have been hurt....

... There is very little intellectual curiosity or integrity in this hobby.

So Caesar proclaims that our hobby has little intellectual curiosity, little integrity ... Caesar, lighten up, the thing that will kill this hobby is angry people having perpetual rants and crapping on everyone instead of also sharing in the good stuff and the joy that we get out of it.

Nobody’s feelings are being hurt largely because it’s actually just another Caesar rant. So you broadly attack people in our hobby. For what? You distort it all so you can just go on with this same spew that never creates anything other than a negative slant on a hobby which is important to us. Nothing’s perfect but you are not actually contributing to make things better. You undermine the hobby, you spew venom at times in outrageous rants that are just melodrama to then drive more venom, more spews. These then malign people both broadly and also at times very specifically in our hobby with highly personal emotionally charged cheap jabs without real evidence and without fair regard but more with hype and artificially inflated and exaggerated scenarios. Truth or fairness seems to be of such little consequence.

the dumb herd - no, let's call it the bandwagon, since people's feelings are getting hurt, has concentrated success in several brands of electronics and box speakers, in particular. Everyone else whose preference doesn't meet that are out of luck.

Innovation has suffered. Our hobby is poorer and less diverse.

Just several brands are servicing us and everyone else is out of luck??? There is so much diversity in this hobby, so many niche brands, so much choice... this position is so far from the reality. We are so lucky in this minority pursuit to have such a diverse range to choose from and if we want we can open ourselves up to DIY as well and extend our options.

You just can’t sit there whingeing that we have little choice and that there’s just a handful of important brands and that it’s all bad and this is the all because of all the dumb people in our hobby. Far out.

And then why would new people want to come into a hobby and invest in it‘s culture if all they read is that it’s a dead industry full of shit people in its ranks and that certain people with supposed ‘fabulous’ systems will just call them dumb for not choosing in a Caesar way ... and if you did own MBL speakers and Symphonic Craft amps and Zu speakers and whatever else gear you go on about owning isn’t that just proof that there aren’t just several brands alive and well.

What will keep this hobby alive is people buying gear and enjoying themselves and not people just undermining it thoughtlessly without ever sharing in the knowledge base and their positive experiences on all the gear we can explore and how we bring it together and make it work for us.

Malice filled angry rants just pointing the finger and criticising others are easy Caesar... give a bit of love and joy to this, share your systems, communicate how they sound, show us how you optimise them, do something challenging and valuable and help us grow the hobby rather than just trash talking it down and giving little back to it in these episodic reams of Machiavellian venting (which isn’t an Olympic sport btw so I’m not sure why your practicing it so hard on us here ). Bring us the light as well as the enduring frustrated wrath of Caesar .

 

[tima]

Let's call it the bandwagon effect, since your feelings have been hurt. But it doesn't change the underlying fundamentals.

No matter what your walk of life, choose to ignore reality at your own risk. It will certainly assert itself.

But one clear reality in this hobby is that people say they want good information and say they think for themselves. But just as we find people on the right tuning into Fox News or people on the left tuning into MSNBC, people seek information that will support rather than undermine their existing beliefs.

Same for the wilson fanboys. There is very little intellectual curiosity or integrity in this hobby.

Here I thought you just liked to draw attention to yourself with your threads meant to stir things up. But you're actually kinda nasty. Click.