Esoteric P03 & D03 vs K07xs or K05xs

[Big Dog RJ]

It was a k03x much better than your entry level model. Simply not my type of sound.it’s lean and way to clinical for my tastes.my mac beat it easy ,far more musical and warm sounding with a nice tonal balance.mcintosh sell more sacd players than esoteric and luxman put together. They are world leaders in sota playback.more serious audiophiles own mac than any other brand Because they like it’s sonic signature.just have a look on the used market and you will see a heap of esoteric sacd players for sale as people are disappointed in its sound and wanna move it on.just go to hifi shark the list is long of second hand esoterics.the reviews also say the esoteric is lean,dry and to clinical sounding,so it’s just not me. Even on what’s best forum people are saying the same.of corse if you like it’s sound that’s fine We all have different tastes.the only thing I like about esoteric is its looks are beautiful.

I knew it! It's not the latest XS series, rather it was the X series. These are older than the XS series that I have, it's a generation behind....

The other thing is you didn't answer my questions at all. Output settings, digital filters and the DAC settings... you're clueless!

The XS series have multiple settings over the X series, it can be calibrated for a particular custom sound on each type of format- PCM, DSD and so on, plus various types of digital filters, and output on the DAC settings upto 34bit rates, again clueless. I had a strong feeling that you wouldn't know anything about those settings and that's the reason for the mediocre sound, simply because the X series doesn't have it.

That's why your dealer "friend" lent it out because they need to sell it. It's an older unit! You also didn't answer who the dealer was? Which means your analysis of judgement on the Esoteric gear is not transparent nor is it a fair judgement. Your comparisons are biased and didn't like the particular model you tried out. Therefore, all Esoteric digital gear must be bad...? Not a good way of judging sound/ performance Gary. Very poor analysis to be honest.

Thanks for clarification, I rest my case.

The number of Esoteric digital gear on sale is simply because the new upgraded versions are available, as already pointed out by other members. You'll find plenty of other brands for sale, doesn't mean anything, could be any million reasons.

As I said You're better off sticking with Mac. Afterall, it's for "serious audiophiles " just like you. Hence, all of us who don't use Mac aren't serious audiophiles at all. What an outstanding statement G-man.
Have a good one,
RJ

 

[thyname]

X is two generations ago. There was X. Then. XS. Now it’s XD. As mentioned above, the new XD series launched about a year ago have the new Discrete in-house built DACs. Not the previous AKM DACs

 

[thedudeabides]

Wonder if folks that are selling units, purchased in the not too distant past, are happy with their initial investment.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

X is two generations ago. There was X. Then. XS. Now it’s XD. As mentioned above, the new XD series launched about a year ago have the new Discrete in-house built DACs. Not the previous AKM DACs

Exactly right! The XD series is even more advanced in every way, including the clock. They're supreme reference performance.

I can also upgrade the clock on the XS series, and the clock alone goes for 26 grand! That's the price we pay for in Aus.

Unfortunately the G-man has no clue and has based his judgement on two generations behind... that's a very low comparison on his home trial. Obviously that dealer wants to get rid of it. Heck, he would have allowed him to keep it for a year!

Cheers, RJ

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Wonder if folks that are selling units, purchased in the not too distant past, are happy with their initial investment.

Very good point Gordon.

They would either need to check out the XD series or upgrade the XS series to those top end clocks. I think it's called the GSO clock something. I heard one, what an incredible performance!

Sadly I'm not dumping 26 grand just yet... need to attend to kiddos Uni fees first.
Cheers mate, RJ

 

[Addicted to hifi]

I knew it! It's not the latest XS series, rather it was the X series. These are older than the XS series that I have, it's a generation behind....

The other thing is you didn't answer my questions at all. Output settings, digital filters and the DAC settings... you're clueless!

The XS series have multiple settings over the X series, it can be calibrated for a particular custom sound on each type of format- PCM, DSD and so on, plus various types of digital filters, and output on the DAC settings upto 34bit rates, again clueless. I had a strong feeling that you wouldn't know anything about those settings and that's the reason for the mediocre sound, simply because the X series doesn't have it.

That's why your dealer "friend" lent it out because they need to sell it. It's an older unit! You also didn't answer who the dealer was? Which means your analysis of judgement on the Esoteric gear is not transparent nor is it a fair judgement. Your comparisons are biased and didn't like the particular model you tried out. Therefore, all Esoteric digital gear must be bad...? Not a good way of judging sound/ performance Gary. Very poor analysis to be honest.

Thanks for clarification, I rest my case.

The number of Esoteric digital gear on sale is simply because the new upgraded versions are available, as already pointed out by other members. You'll find plenty of other brands for sale, doesn't mean anything, could be any million reasons.

As I said You're better off sticking with Mac. Afterall, it's for "serious audiophiles " just like you. Hence, all of us who don't use Mac aren't serious audiophiles at all. What an outstanding statement G-man.
Have a good one,
RJ

Other people are definitely serious audiophiles it’s you that isn’t and I am not the only one who things so.any one who keeps there hifi in a very small kitchen area is not an audiophile.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

The later version would only be slightly better, it’s still the same esoteric sound which I don’t like.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

I knew it! It's not the latest XS series, rather it was the X series. These are older than the XS series that I have, it's a generation behind....

The other thing is you didn't answer my questions at all. Output settings, digital filters and the DAC settings... you're clueless!

The XS series have multiple settings over the X series, it can be calibrated for a particular custom sound on each type of format- PCM, DSD and so on, plus various types of digital filters, and output on the DAC settings upto 34bit rates, again clueless. I had a strong feeling that you wouldn't know anything about those settings and that's the reason for the mediocre sound, simply because the X series doesn't have it.

That's why your dealer "friend" lent it out because they need to sell it. It's an older unit! You also didn't answer who the dealer was? Which means your analysis of judgement on the Esoteric gear is not transparent nor is it a fair judgement. Your comparisons are biased and didn't like the particular model you tried out. Therefore, all Esoteric digital gear must be bad...? Not a good way of judging sound/ performance Gary. Very poor analysis to be honest.

Thanks for clarification, I rest my case.

The number of Esoteric digital gear on sale is simply because the new upgraded versions are available, as already pointed out by other members. You'll find plenty of other brands for sale, doesn't mean anything, could be any million reasons.

As I said You're better off sticking with Mac. Afterall, it's for "serious audiophiles " just like you. Hence, all of us who don't use Mac aren't serious audiophiles at all. What an outstanding statement G-man.
Have a good one,
RJ

I never said mac is the best after all it’s beer budget hifi compared to what’s available but I like it and I wouldn’t swap it for anything in the world.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Exactly right! The XD series is even more advanced in every way, including the clock. They're supreme reference performance.

I can also upgrade the clock on the XS series, and the clock alone goes for 26 grand! That's the price we pay for in Aus.

Unfortunately the G-man has no clue and has based his judgement on two generations behind... that's a very low comparison on his home trial. Obviously that dealer wants to get rid of it. Heck, he would have allowed him to keep it for a year!

Cheers, RJ

You talk like a expert but seriously you got no idea.its sad

 

[Addicted to hifi]

I will leave this thread here as I don’t want to waste my time on bigdog.sorry to other people on this thread And enjoy your esoteric gear.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

I wonder who the dud is ...?
Very uneducated comments Gary. Well said mate, keep it up. It's certainly refreshing to those new users looking for meaningful comparisons between brands. Your comments are particularly useful to duds...

All the best, you're definitely an inspiration to WBF.
Best, RJ

 

[Addicted to hifi]

I wonder who the dud is ...?
Very uneducated comments Gary. Well said mate, keep it up. It's certainly refreshing to those new users looking for meaningful comparisons between brands. Your comments are particularly useful to duds...

All the best, you're definitely an inspiration to WBF.
Best, RJ

Sorry entry level man. just enjoy the beer budget hifi you got and I will enjoy mine.cheers and a big woof

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Gary, all I asked you were three simple questions, which you couldn't quite answer, hence no idea about the Esoteric line or Luxman for that matter.

You could have given a simple answer like, not sure or I need to check with the dealer. Then you could have researched more about the special features these latest digital playback systems offer and come up with a more valid comparison. This would have been far more meaningful. Any normal educated person would have figured this out.

You rather chose to go off on a rant, making senseless uneducated comments. "Entry level man, dud, hearing aids, kitchens..." and whatever else you've labelled me as, are only casted by truly uneducated people.

This is what happens when someone gets cornered and feels insecure, so then they lash out. I'm not surprised by your comments or answer, I was not expecting anything meaningful from you at all.

I suggest you pack your bags and move on, the MAC bus is waiting.

Have a safe journey.
RJ

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Gary, all I asked you were three simple questions, which you couldn't quite answer, hence no idea about the Esoteric line or Luxman for that matter.

You could have given a simple answer like, not sure or I need to check with the dealer. Then you could have researched more about the special features these latest digital playback systems offer and come up with a more valid comparison. This would have been far more meaningful. Any normal educated person would have figured this out.

You rather chose to go off on a rant, making senseless uneducated comments. "Entry level man, dud, hearing aids, kitchens..." and whatever else you've labelled me as, are only casted by truly uneducated people.

This is what happens when someone gets cornered and feels insecure, so then they lash out. I'm not surprised by your comments or answer, I was not expecting anything meaningful from you at all.

I suggest you pack your bags and move on, the MAC bus is waiting.

Have a safe journey.
RJ

Ha ha ha yes bigdog I will. just joking around.take care cheers and a big woof woof.

 

[Phillyb]

PBM: We use a K-01 as the main DAC in our mastering room. With no upsampling and the S-DLY1

I found the same thing, these settings easily beat any of the other settings for sonics and accuracy.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Well it has been quite a while since the K07xs settled in, and only now it just passed the 150hr mark. Got about 165hrs... according to the Eso guru, it should take full flight around the 185 to 200 hr mark. Just great, so I guess another 100hrs to go...

Anyway, how ever long that's going to take, this thing just shifted a few more gears. Outstanding performance all round, the whole presentation is quite different from about a month ago. It's certainly warmer sounding, has a very tangible effect on the soundstage, you can virtually reach out and touch the performers. Average recordings don't sound that bad afterall, and high quality recordings are in a class of their own, fantastic! The soundstage depth and layering opens up beautifully.

I sincerely don't think anything I've tried or owned in the past comes this far in total brilliance and high resolution. The transparency and detail in the full freq spec is superb, I simply can't flaw it.

The closest I ever got to this was probably when I used a Wadia Transport with a Meitner DAC, that was awe-inspiring as well, and of course the legendary CJ DV2B that was a tube CD playback system, with separate DAC and transport. The most enjoyable by far but sadly ceased production during mid 2000 to make way for their digital gear after 2004/05.

From that point onwards I used several tube based players, such as ARC, and Cary but sadly none of them lasted too long. It was getting cumbersome so I only upgraded twice and finally I've found something far more superior in every way. Although it took just over 15yrs, I guess it was well worth it!

The Eso chap came out last evening and brought over a top notch Eso clock. We compared a few notes, tried different configs on the K07xs DACs with a few more high Res files, and finalised on a slightly different setting this time. So currently using F1 with sampling rate of only 2x. Nothing more, since we found this to be more natural in tonality compared to our previous settings. On DSD Direct playback we found the default settings to be adequate on most recordings but with those Telarcs, Bluenotes, and Verves, Filter 1 and upsampling proved more dynamic and natural. Also, as the unit runs in, and gets to that perfect temperature with the required hours to warm up and run in, upsampling too high a setting isn't required, unless the recording is too bright or has a hot top end in nature.

One thing for sure though is that clock! Wow what a superb combination. Must get my hands on that thing, and I believe if I'm after that 40% in improvement, the clock is it! Well I guess I better start planning now, the cost is quite substantial just for a clock.

On another note: the CJ monoblocks haven't quite reached their required burn-in mark on the Teflons or Vishays for that matter. I think after the SE upgrade, they've clocked in only around 80hrs or just about close to the 100 mark. So plenty more to go there but these monoblocks are just cruising along driving the CLX's to supreme excellence!
They're mighty marvellous indeed!

Cheers maties, and enjoy those fine tunes!
Big WOOF, RJ

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Well it has been quite a while since the K07xs settled in, and only now it just passed the 150hr mark. Got about 165hrs... according to the Eso guru, it should take full flight around the 185 to 200 hr mark. Just great, so I guess another 100hrs to go...

Anyway, how ever long that's going to take, this thing just shifted a few more gears. Outstanding performance all round, the whole presentation is quite different from about a month ago. It's certainly warmer sounding, has a very tangible effect on the soundstage, you can virtually reach out and touch the performers. Average recordings don't sound that bad afterall, and high quality recordings are in a class of their own, fantastic! The soundstage depth and layering opens up beautifully.

I sincerely don't think anything I've tried or owned in the past comes this far in total brilliance and high resolution. The transparency and detail in the full freq spec is superb, I simply can't flaw it.

The closest I ever got to this was probably when I used a Wadia Transport with a Meitner DAC, that was awe-inspiring as well, and of course the legendary CJ DV2B that was a tube CD playback system, with separate DAC and transport. The most enjoyable by far but sadly ceased production during mid 2000 to make way for their digital gear after 2004/05.

From that point onwards I used several tube based players, such as ARC, and Cary but sadly none of them lasted too long. It was getting cumbersome so I only upgraded twice and finally I've found something far more superior in every way. Although it took just over 15yrs, I guess it was well worth it!

The Eso chap came out last evening and brought over a top notch Eso clock. We compared a few notes, tried different configs on the K07xs DACs with a few more high Res files, and finalised on a slightly different setting this time. So currently using F1 with sampling rate of only 2x. Nothing more, since we found this to be more natural in tonality compared to our previous settings. On DSD Direct playback we found the default settings to be adequate on most recordings but with those Telarcs, Bluenotes, and Verves, Filter 1 and upsampling proved more dynamic and natural. Also, as the unit runs in, and gets to that perfect temperature with the required hours to warm up and run in, upsampling too high a setting isn't required, unless the recording is too bright or has a hot top end in nature.

One thing for sure though is that clock! Wow what a superb combination. Must get my hands on that thing, and I believe if I'm after that 40% in improvement, the clock is it! Well I guess I better start planning now, the cost is quite substantial just for a clock.

On another note: the CJ monoblocks haven't quite reached their required burn-in mark on the Teflons or Vishays for that matter. I think after the SE upgrade, they've clocked in only around 80hrs or just about close to the 100 mark. So plenty more to go there but these monoblocks are just cruising along driving the CLX's to supreme excellence!
They're mighty marvellous indeed!

Cheers maties, and enjoy those fine tunes!
Big WOOF, RJ

you have a entry level model. would love to hear how the esoteric flagship sacd player would sound in your system.cheers

 

[Addicted to hifi]

I am looking for a second cd player and like the oracle audio CD player but it doesn’t play sacds.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Thanks, but not required at this stage.

I'm just enjoying every minute spent with this gem, and discovering the superb settings it has to offer. It's a marvel at how they do all of this within this price range. Superb vfm.

Before I commit to the Esoteric clock, I was advised by another Eso guru to try out the Mutec German clock. Whiles settings are carefully matched towards 10mHz using 50Ohms cable, that should work pretty good, having already tried out the G0X3 clock. That was awe-inspiring but comes in at 26grand for the clock alone. The Mutec around 4 times less, equal in performance, is another factor to consider. Maybe I should do a home trial just to compare. Four to five days is a good comparison on the clocks, as it takes 24hrs to settle in properly.

Anyone else tried the Mutec? Heard only good things about them so far, I guess German engineering is at its best.

Will report later, RJ

 

[GSOphile]

Another reputedly state of the art clock brand quite popular among Esoteric player users is Cybershaft, which is sold direct from Japan. This will probably be my choice if I decide to get one for my K-01XD.