Esoteric P03 & D03 vs K07xs or K05xs
- Thread starter Big Dog RJ
- Start date
Slightly off topic here but I thought I'd respond, as I feel it's worth noting.
Many thanks to Thedudeabides & Stump, and to the numerous PM's I also received after those comments made by G-man (Addicted to hifi).
Those initial comments made by him as follows:
1. The gear that I have is entry level...
2. I don't know what good sound is...
3. That I need hearing aids! and the list of degradation goes on...
Similar comments were made on Stereo Net to other members systems here in Aus and as a result he was banned from the site.
There were several of you who messaged straight away asking me why on earth am I even talking to this guy. Just drop him was the final comment. I clearly understand your advice.
Although this would be anyone's initial reaction, I actually thought about it and took it in stride. Afterall, in the past he has helped, believe it or not? G-man pointed out that using the Thor power conditioner was inhibiting the systems true potential. So I discontinued it, and the systems improvement was stunning! G-man also introduced me to the FIM labels and although I heard improvements through the Mac sacd player, it was decent but I was not fully impressed. Then more recently when I moved onto the Esoteric gear, oh wow! Now I understand the FIM labels and those real high quality mastered ones, truly spectacular!
So, I called upon three professionals who specialise in open plan designs to address any specific issues with the sound and also an Esoteric chap who knows how these things work.
After three to four days of repositioning the CLX's and tweaking the connections, placing the Iso Acoustics Gaia II's on the CLX's, relocating the listening position and properly warming up the Esoteric gear for few days and reassessing on the fourth day, all I can say is a massive wow!
In addition to the fine level of playback, I also upgraded the CJ monoblocks to the full SE version, which took nearly two years of completion, since I did it in several stages... That level of performance from these particular monoblocks has taken it to the standard of the original ART amplifiers, only difference is they're half the power. The Class A bias and Vishays made such a difference, the only upgrade path from here that I can possibly think of are CJ's top of the line ART300's. However, the CLX's nor does the room require that kind of power.
So, those comments made by G-man on a public forum, after being invited to my house with a very warm welcome, was my last straw. I've moved on...
At the end of the day, I did learn a lot and continue to learn more about how different gear works in specific types of rooms and get the best possible layout. It's a bit difficult to try all this out alone, and when help is offered it's a beautiful thing!
I'm not upset or angry or anything, in this day and age when the world is actually a crazy place... nothing seems right anymore, no responsibility, not much of a future for planet Earth, and senseless things going on... life is definitely far too short to be angry or upset on a hifi issue!
Just enjoy what you have, learn as much as possible from others and be true to yourself, and most of all don't be carried away by reviews! Your ears are the final judge.
Cheers to all, and be well.
Enjoy those fine tunes! Big woof!!!
RJ
Many thanks to Thedudeabides & Stump, and to the numerous PM's I also received after those comments made by G-man (Addicted to hifi).
Those initial comments made by him as follows:
1. The gear that I have is entry level...
2. I don't know what good sound is...
3. That I need hearing aids! and the list of degradation goes on...
Similar comments were made on Stereo Net to other members systems here in Aus and as a result he was banned from the site.
There were several of you who messaged straight away asking me why on earth am I even talking to this guy. Just drop him was the final comment. I clearly understand your advice.
Although this would be anyone's initial reaction, I actually thought about it and took it in stride. Afterall, in the past he has helped, believe it or not? G-man pointed out that using the Thor power conditioner was inhibiting the systems true potential. So I discontinued it, and the systems improvement was stunning! G-man also introduced me to the FIM labels and although I heard improvements through the Mac sacd player, it was decent but I was not fully impressed. Then more recently when I moved onto the Esoteric gear, oh wow! Now I understand the FIM labels and those real high quality mastered ones, truly spectacular!
So, I called upon three professionals who specialise in open plan designs to address any specific issues with the sound and also an Esoteric chap who knows how these things work.
After three to four days of repositioning the CLX's and tweaking the connections, placing the Iso Acoustics Gaia II's on the CLX's, relocating the listening position and properly warming up the Esoteric gear for few days and reassessing on the fourth day, all I can say is a massive wow!
In addition to the fine level of playback, I also upgraded the CJ monoblocks to the full SE version, which took nearly two years of completion, since I did it in several stages... That level of performance from these particular monoblocks has taken it to the standard of the original ART amplifiers, only difference is they're half the power. The Class A bias and Vishays made such a difference, the only upgrade path from here that I can possibly think of are CJ's top of the line ART300's. However, the CLX's nor does the room require that kind of power.
So, those comments made by G-man on a public forum, after being invited to my house with a very warm welcome, was my last straw. I've moved on...
At the end of the day, I did learn a lot and continue to learn more about how different gear works in specific types of rooms and get the best possible layout. It's a bit difficult to try all this out alone, and when help is offered it's a beautiful thing!
I'm not upset or angry or anything, in this day and age when the world is actually a crazy place... nothing seems right anymore, no responsibility, not much of a future for planet Earth, and senseless things going on... life is definitely far too short to be angry or upset on a hifi issue!
Just enjoy what you have, learn as much as possible from others and be true to yourself, and most of all don't be carried away by reviews! Your ears are the final judge.
Cheers to all, and be well.
Enjoy those fine tunes! Big woof!!!
RJ
I still stand by my comments because there true as far as I am concerned. I also had pm sent to me and two friends of mine fully agree with me what they heard at bigdogs house didn’t sound good.yet at my place i have never being told anything less that my system is excellent.mcintosh sacd beats any esoteric hands down easy. I just tried a esoteric digital playback at home thanks to a generous dealer to clear my mind and make sure I am right on the sound.boy was I right mac kills the esoteric imho. With the esoteric the Maggie’s lost body and natural warm and bloom. It was like going to bad solid state.I’m happy for those who like esoteric gear but it’s not my cup of tea And I don’t care less what people think of my system as long as I like it.cheers to all.
I will be trying luxman out next and if I like it’s sound I am gonna purchase the d10x as a second player in my reference system.
I never put down anyone’s system unless they put down mine first and that’s exactly what happened with bigdog.I have never said anything negative about any one’s system on hear except to bigdog because he put down my system first.
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Remember mate if he didn’t say negative stuff about my system to me first i would not be hear writing this now.
What I said to you Gary was in private, NOT on a public forum... it's highly unethical. Also the comments I made regarding your maggies weren't really mine alone. These also came from my good mate in Spore who's actually the dealer for Maggie's and Alsyvox. However, he's now moved on the 30.7's to make way for the full line up of Alsyvox, including the 4 panel setup. I'll be making a trip hopefully in Feb 22 to audition this with his Momentums amplifiers. He's still has the ART300's with his CLX's in a different room though.
Also, the comments I made regarding your Maggie's and system were only performance based. I never made degrading comments such as, I need hearing aids, entry level gear and I don't know good sound.... Such comments made on forums are simply pathetic! And you clearly missed the point from me and all our forum members. Very sad Gary.
Also to be invited over and known each other for a few years... that makes it even more sad.
Just read all my posts on the 30.7's, not anywhere have I said any negative comments.
I have titled it as "The Marvellous 30.7's!"
Have only said good things as they ought to be. But nothing's perfect. Not sure if you can even comprehend that...
I'm not sure you're really getting the point here.
On SN you made comments such as, "Yamaha is rubbish and that you would never buy Australian made hifi..."
For someone who resides in Australia and is an Aus citizen, to make these comments were their last straw, that's why you were banned. Then you came back under a different name, trying to creep back in... banned again. Then you asked them to delete your account. It was long gone anyway.
For you to say that you stand by your comments simply goes to show your arrogance. Sadly, you lost another good friend.
I tried my best to help but it's pointless. Now you drag the very same arrogance into WBF, I sincerely think you're better off in your own forum.
The whole purpose of inviting you and your wife over was not for hifi dopey! It was to share and learn from general life, experiences around the world, sharing different cultures and learn from each other's experiences. That's why your Mrs really enjoyed her time spent with my family but all you ever cared about was how the hifi sounds. What a sad sense of experience...
I sincerely suggest you move on, love whatever you want and be safe. Don't worry about it too much, what you have is good enough.
Also just a tip for home trials, you can't judge gear after a few hours, they need to be your home system for at least a month, properly setup and fully run in. A few hours just won't make it. You may get an idea but it won't work. That's why when I had my amplifiers sent for upgrade, I used the Dartzeel, Boulder, Gryphon and Momentums for several weeks, just to get a feel of what SS amplifiers can do with stats. All were superb but I just prefer tubes. Again several weeks, not few hours. Infact I kept the Dartzeel for over a month!
Then again, what do I know? I need hearing aids...
Have a successful future Gary.
Best, RJ
Also, the comments I made regarding your Maggie's and system were only performance based. I never made degrading comments such as, I need hearing aids, entry level gear and I don't know good sound.... Such comments made on forums are simply pathetic! And you clearly missed the point from me and all our forum members. Very sad Gary.
Also to be invited over and known each other for a few years... that makes it even more sad.
Just read all my posts on the 30.7's, not anywhere have I said any negative comments.
I have titled it as "The Marvellous 30.7's!"
Have only said good things as they ought to be. But nothing's perfect. Not sure if you can even comprehend that...
I'm not sure you're really getting the point here.
On SN you made comments such as, "Yamaha is rubbish and that you would never buy Australian made hifi..."
For someone who resides in Australia and is an Aus citizen, to make these comments were their last straw, that's why you were banned. Then you came back under a different name, trying to creep back in... banned again. Then you asked them to delete your account. It was long gone anyway.
For you to say that you stand by your comments simply goes to show your arrogance. Sadly, you lost another good friend.
I tried my best to help but it's pointless. Now you drag the very same arrogance into WBF, I sincerely think you're better off in your own forum.
The whole purpose of inviting you and your wife over was not for hifi dopey! It was to share and learn from general life, experiences around the world, sharing different cultures and learn from each other's experiences. That's why your Mrs really enjoyed her time spent with my family but all you ever cared about was how the hifi sounds. What a sad sense of experience...
I sincerely suggest you move on, love whatever you want and be safe. Don't worry about it too much, what you have is good enough.
Also just a tip for home trials, you can't judge gear after a few hours, they need to be your home system for at least a month, properly setup and fully run in. A few hours just won't make it. You may get an idea but it won't work. That's why when I had my amplifiers sent for upgrade, I used the Dartzeel, Boulder, Gryphon and Momentums for several weeks, just to get a feel of what SS amplifiers can do with stats. All were superb but I just prefer tubes. Again several weeks, not few hours. Infact I kept the Dartzeel for over a month!
Then again, what do I know? I need hearing aids...
Have a successful future Gary.
Best, RJ
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Yes true you didn’t say it on line and I really didn’t think about that but your right perhaps I shouldn’t have done so.good enough is never good enough for me unfortunately I am very spoiled.
Hey G-man,
2 weeks home trial... mmm ok whatever.
The Luxman is an outstanding piece of fine gear, the D10X, just beautiful! As it ought to be and that's their top of the line. The Esoteric top of the line is equally superb, both are in a class of their own and very pricey. If you're "spoiled" as you claim go for it! I'm not spoiled and I don't require that level of performance, very very happy with what I have and enjoying to the fullest.
Not too sure if you would like the Luxman or any other gear, simply because none of them have big blue meters on the front panels!
Just a joke G-man, relax!
Best, RJ
2 weeks home trial... mmm ok whatever.
The Luxman is an outstanding piece of fine gear, the D10X, just beautiful! As it ought to be and that's their top of the line. The Esoteric top of the line is equally superb, both are in a class of their own and very pricey. If you're "spoiled" as you claim go for it! I'm not spoiled and I don't require that level of performance, very very happy with what I have and enjoying to the fullest.
Not too sure if you would like the Luxman or any other gear, simply because none of them have big blue meters on the front panels!
Just a joke G-man, relax!
Best, RJ
Yes it was two weeks. I could have had longer as I am a friend of this dealer.the mcintosh mcd600 is on my list as well.I used to own a luxman CD player so I really like the luxman d10x. Actually abit sick of the meters as I have 3 amps and a pre with meters, luckily you can turn the lights of On the metres.
Suffice to say that I'm not laughing. Unfortunately, you can't unring the bell.
Absent the system synergy regarding this or any other quality CDP, your observation is not suprising.
Hey G-man,
Out of curiosity I want to know a few things, if you are kind enough to explain:
1. What was the Esoteric digital player model? Was it the latest XS or XD series player?
2. What output settings did you choose?
3. What digital filters did you select on the DACs?
If you can explain based on the above points that would be great. I also feel the Luxman won't do well in your particular system, simply because both your pre and power amplifiers are Mac. Therefore, your primary sound signature is all Mac. The Esoteric nor Luxman would work well. The power amplifier is the heart and soul of any system, in order to generate the magic of these top digital playback systems, you need the same line up in pre - power amplifier gear.
You're better off just sticking with Mac, afterall that's what you prefer in any case.
Also who's the dealer that provided the Esoteric? You won't get a Luxman D10x for home demo unless you were willing to pay up a 50% deposit. I tried myself but only managed to get the D03x or was it a 05 can't remember... but definitely not the top of the line. Lending it out regardless of whether this dealer is your friend is too high a liability for them.
If it's Klapp AV, I'm afraid they don't have the full Esoteric line up. Must have been a much older unit on trade-in... I'm suspecting. Anyway, if you can explain and clear things based on the above that would be great.
RJ
Out of curiosity I want to know a few things, if you are kind enough to explain:
1. What was the Esoteric digital player model? Was it the latest XS or XD series player?
2. What output settings did you choose?
3. What digital filters did you select on the DACs?
If you can explain based on the above points that would be great. I also feel the Luxman won't do well in your particular system, simply because both your pre and power amplifiers are Mac. Therefore, your primary sound signature is all Mac. The Esoteric nor Luxman would work well. The power amplifier is the heart and soul of any system, in order to generate the magic of these top digital playback systems, you need the same line up in pre - power amplifier gear.
You're better off just sticking with Mac, afterall that's what you prefer in any case.
Also who's the dealer that provided the Esoteric? You won't get a Luxman D10x for home demo unless you were willing to pay up a 50% deposit. I tried myself but only managed to get the D03x or was it a 05 can't remember... but definitely not the top of the line. Lending it out regardless of whether this dealer is your friend is too high a liability for them.
If it's Klapp AV, I'm afraid they don't have the full Esoteric line up. Must have been a much older unit on trade-in... I'm suspecting. Anyway, if you can explain and clear things based on the above that would be great.
RJ
It was a k03x much better than your entry level model. Simply not my type of sound.it’s lean and way to clinical for my tastes.my mac beat it easy ,far more musical and warm sounding with a nice tonal balance.mcintosh sell more sacd players than esoteric and luxman put together. They are world leaders in sota playback.more serious audiophiles own mac than any other brand Because they like it’s sonic signature.just have a look on the used market and you will see a heap of esoteric sacd players for sale as people are disappointed in its sound and wanna move it on.just go to hifi shark the list is long of second hand esoterics.the reviews also say the esoteric is lean,dry and to clinical sounding,so it’s just not me. Even on what’s best forum people are saying the same.of corse if you like it’s sound that’s fine We all have different tastes.the only thing I like about esoteric is its looks are beautiful.
I will most likely buy the mcd 600. It’s 14 grand ,cheaper than esoteric or luxman and better sounding and much more user friendly.
Just checked eBay and there’s 40 esoteric CD players for sale right now.mcintosh only 8 and mostly very old vintage players.i am not smart but when it comes to hifi I know my stuff because that’s what I live for.
I recently replaced my Esoteric K-03X with a K-01XD. The new XD models use a completely different discrete component DAC technology from earlier chip-based DAC models. Most Esoteric owners who have heard them believe they have taken a big step up with these.... which probably accounts for many of the units currently on the used market (including mine).
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