What are the Top Horn Speakers in the World Today? Vox Olympian vs Avantgarde Trio vs ???

[G T Audio]

The use of vaccum formed plastic is due to scale, reproducibility and speed of manufacture after having forked out the up front costs of moulds. If you look at the process to CNC mill a Aries mid bass horn on his 5 axis etc versus sucking a bit of plastic over the mould and injecting it with gel you’ll realise the time difference.

Ebony and rosewood were just 2 woods that came to mid and you miss the point. It could be any other decent hardwood as employed by OMA for instance whether that be Ash, Oak, doesn’t need to be protected.

Its not vacuum formed plastic. There is a male and a female part to each mould. Each mould is precision machined for a perfect horn. Each horn is injection moulded using ABS in the AG models. It's also about consistency too and that equates to how each horn sounds. For example 2 machined wood horns could sound completely different to each other. The construction of the Cessaro horn is completely different as the thickness of the horn is massively thicker, up to 4 inches thick.

 

[Argonaut]

Whereas the Trumpet, Tuba, French horn, Saxophone, Trombone are all made from brass not wood.

Whereas none are manufactured from ABS or similar plastic compounds out side of these :

 

[G T Audio]

This “non colouration” is a misnomer - it doesn’t exist. I have heard big Cessaro systems on many occasions and it is always quite obviously present as it is for AG. I am not criticising them btw - they are beautifully engineered products in their own way. And by the way, their bass horns are wood covered in car paint unless I am misguided.

I have not said that Cessaro horns do not have any colouration. I have made the point that compared to the wood horns they used before, the later moulded horn offer significantly better audio performance. Cessaro bass horns are not made from wood. They are machined from a special polymer material which is very non resonant and also very thick and extremely heavy. Cessaro are a very serious horn manufacturer. They also make their own drive units and pretty much do everything in house.

 

[Al M.]

Whereas none are manufactured from ABS or similar plastic compounds out side of these :

View attachment 94791

There are two things:

a) the desired resonances of a musical instrument to create a sound, which require a certain resonant material

b) the desired lack of resonances of the enclosure to a transducer that reproduces the resonant sound from a musical instrument with fidelity, i.e. by also NOT adding resonances of its own beyond the ones from the instrument to be reproduced

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I have not said that Cessaro horns do not have any colouration. I have made the point that compared to the wood horns they used before, the later moulded horn offer significantly better audio performance. Cessaro bass horns are not made from wood. They are machined from a special polymer material which is very non resonant and also very thick and extremely heavy. Cessaro are a very serious horn manufacturer. They also make their own drive units and pretty much do everything in house.

Okay no problem, Graham. I will bow out cos I have made my point and I am now ruining the thread.

Vox Olympian is a nice sounding commercial horn with the right ancillaries too.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

There are two things:

a) the desired resonances of a musical instrument to create a sound, which require a certain resonant material

b) the desired lack of resonances of the enclosure to a transducer that reproduces the resonant sound from a musical instrument with fidelity, i.e. by also NOT adding resonances of its own beyond the ones from the instrument to be reproduced

Indeed Al only the latter doesn’t manifest in reality imho ymmv. So-called inert boxes often sound lifeless and dead. So one can accept that no matter what, you will get some signature and work with it or try to “fight” it. Fighting it isn’t a philosophy that I think works entirely.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Here is an interesting Q&A with Kevin of Living Voice RE: Vox Olympian. Question there about materials choice FYI.

Personally I like the tone of the Olympian albeit a touch too sweet which is probably because I heard with a lot of Kondo. It sounds natural enough to my ears though. Nothing synthetic about it.

Q&A Designer Kevin Scott | Vox Olympian | Living Voice

Designer Kevin Scott explains his motivation, objectives and key decisions in the development of the Vox Olympian Horn Loudspeaker System.

www.livingvoice.co.uk

 

[Al M.]

So-called inert boxes often sound lifeless and dead.

Not necessarily. The main difference between my current Reference 3A Reflector speakers and my previous MM DeCapo BE speakers from the same company is the much greater inertness of cabinet. The Reflector speakers sound considerably more lively and more dynamic than my previous ones, presumably at least for a good part because there are less cabinet resonances that counteract ("fight against") driver energy.

 

[christoph]

Only the new 80+ k Odeon are wood. Where are the 28, 32, 38 wood? The horn part was composite.

All wood
Brad was faster

 

[G T Audio]

Vox Olympian is a nice sounding commercial horn with the right ancillaries too.

Yes it is.

 

[gleeds]

I never hear anyone comment on AER. I heard the AER Pnoe and thought they were outstanding. Aer has a wide range of speakers and I especially like their drivers.

I heard the AER Jazz at the Long Beach show. Not much bass but otherwise incredibly natural-sounding in a way that sucks you in. Besides looking incredibly mod, I thought they would make killer office speakers where gain and big bass are not a priority. The very reasonably priced Sun Valley SE tube amplifiers made here in LA were impressive powering them as well.

 

[Atmasphere]

I've always felt that one of the best horn systems made is made by Classic Audio Loudspeakers of Brighton, Michigan. You have two flavors: full range horn system (which is a reproduction of the Hartsfield horn system, updated with beryllium midrange diaphragms and field coils) or the T series, such as the T-1, which is a bass reflex setup which has similar upgrades. The field coils make for faster drivers which is easy to hear, and the beryllium diaphragms (with Kapton surrounds for greater low frequency bandwidth; the T-1 wood horn is thus crossed over at 250Hz) don't have any breakups in the audio band, making for not only fast (more detailed) but very smooth midrange sound. Both the T-1 and T-3 feature machined wood horns.

Either version is 16 Ohms. The T-1 is rated to 20Hz and uses one 18" and 15" driver per cabinet. I have a modified version (modified to be a bit taller to allow the same internal volume as the T-1) of the T-3 which employs dual 15" drivers and is also flat to 20Hz. A bit of a sacrifice is made to get that bandwidth; they are 'only' 98dB. The Hartsfield has surprising low frequency bandwidth if set up in a corner (can shake the walls quite handily; John Wolff has made a lot of progress over the original design...) and is more like 105dB. If you google photos, you'll see that the Hartsfield has an external crossover.

People often remark on hearing them that they have the transparency and speed that they expect of ESLs, but of course have the easy drivability of horns.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I heard the AER Jazz at the Long Beach show. Not much bass but otherwise incredibly natural-sounding in a way that sucks you in. Besides looking incredibly mod, I thought they would make killer office speakers where gain and big bass are not a priority. The very reasonably priced Sun Valley SE tube amplifiers made here in LA were impressive powering them as well. View attachment 94795

The drivers are astonishing so doesn’t surprise me. That is the Jazz with BD1B driver, which is their entry point.

 

[morricab]

The use of vaccum formed plastic is due to scale, reproducibility and speed of manufacture after having forked out the up front costs of moulds. If you look at the process to CNC mill a Aries mid bass horn on his 5 axis etc versus sucking a bit of plastic over the mould and injecting it with gel you’ll realise the time difference.

Ebony and rosewood were just 2 woods that came to mid and you miss the point. It could be any other decent hardwood as employed by OMA for instance whether that be Ash, Oak, doesn’t need to be protected.

Nevermind the cost for a CNC mill big enough to do that work....

 

[andromedaaudio]

Ebony is gonna cost ye .
Especially if you wanna Mill it into a horn .
I m currently designing HPL speakers with solid wooden inlays , but i skipped on ebony

 

[Hear Here]

Whereas none are manufactured from ABS or similar plastic compounds out side of these :

But neither these nor any other orchestral instruments are made from paper, magnets and a coil of wire - the most common materials driver are made from. We are in irrelevant territory comparing materials used for instruments with materials used in speakers. Surely what counts is how well or otherwise audio materials can reproduce the sound of an orchestra - or a soprano or baritone voice, etc. I'd suggest that the consistency of a plastic ([particularly one are rigid as rigid and tough as ABS) are better suited than wood with its inevitable variation in density, etc.

 

[microstrip]

Indeed Al only the latter doesn’t manifest in reality imho ymmv. So-called inert boxes often sound lifeless and dead. So one can accept that no matter what, you will get some signature and work with it or try to “fight” it. Fighting it isn’t a philosophy that I think works entirely.

The fact that SOME inert boxes sound lifeless and dead does not prove anything - it just shows that SOME designers like the sound SOME people consider lifeless and dead.

IMHO Al. M point is essentially correct. The only thing in common between a Stradivarius and DDK Bionors is that they are both impossible to reproduce and unobtainium - although it seems it is more possible to get the first than the second.

 

[Atmasphere]

I'd suggest that the consistency of a plastic ([particularly one are rigid as rigid and tough as ABS) are better suited than wood with its inevitable variation in density, etc.

What is important is a lack of resonance. You can get that with wood if its done carefully enough. Its also paramount that the coupling be correct to prevent distortion. That is one thing that the wood horn TAD sold didn't have right- the throat had an error that caused a bit of artifact. So when Classic Audio Loudspeakers made their machined wood horn that was one thing they fixed.

 

[andromedaaudio]

it just shows that SOME designers like the sound SOME people consider lifeless and dead.

We understand each other Micro

Hpl rules best material ever , a transducer is/ should not be a resonating musical instrument

 

[Argonaut]

But neither these nor any other orchestral instruments are made from paper, magnets and a coil of wire - the most common materials driver are made from. We are in irrelevant territory comparing materials used for instruments with materials used in speakers. Surely what counts is how well or otherwise audio materials can reproduce the sound of an orchestra - or a soprano or baritone voice, etc. I'd suggest that the consistency of a plastic ([particularly one are rigid as rigid and tough as ABS) are better suited than wood with its inevitable variation in density, etc.

No…