Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[ACHiPo]

Amazing what happens when you RTFM (and listen to Emile)! I hadn’t seen the USB profile manual yet. I followed the instructions and reset the Extreme to ASIO from WASAPI, then set max bits to 24 on Roon instead of 32. I am now getting DSD256 NOS on my DAC. Unfortunately I am also getting an occasional pop every 3-4 min, although it hasn’t happened for the last 30 min so who knows. I am transferring music to the Extreme, so that may be causing it. Otherwise the sound quality seems a tad better with the new settings (yeah I know the SQ suffers during file xfer, but it still sounds darned good).

All file transfers are complete, and absolutely no pops playing 256DSD albums.

 

[ACHiPo]

To update Steve's advice, the currently preferred method, over on the long-running SACD ripping thread on Audiophile Style, is to use SACDExtractGUI. This is what I use and it is rock solid.

See https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...-yes-its-true/?do=findComment&comment=1182533

Gonna start another thread for this, as my initial attempts are not proving fruitful. Let the purgatory begin...

 

[Christiaan Punter]

Christiaan,
Thanks. I don't have one, but suppose I can order one. I ordered a USB A to A cable yesterday I will have tomorrow. If that doesn't work I'll pursue the switch idea.
Evan

Hi Evan, USB will not work but any old switch will do, well, best use a Gigabit one if you want the maximum speed.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

Just reading this. D'oh! Off to find a switch.

Just to clarify, I was planning to use the Aurender as an external drive to the Extreme, use VNC to find Aurender's HDD, and move files from the Aurender to the Extreme.

All this may be moot at this point. After loading ~4TB onto the Extreme I realize my biggest issue is converting the SACD ISO so Roon will see and play them. I have 395 SACD albums that were ripped to ISO files that I need to convert. Once I do this I will have >98%% of the content I used on my Aurender.

You could indeed use the Aurender just like a network drive via its share. But note that the Extreme sounds best when the music is played back from its internal storage.

 

[wil]

Thank you for your kind words @ctydwn

It's a different world since Covid hit and the subsequent collapse of the "Just in Time" supply chain. Today hunting for components has become a full time job all by itself. It's a small miracle we've been able to continue sourcing parts, building and shipping out Extremes in the quantities we have without changing parts or specifications. For new developments we have been less lucky, on one hand because of the necessary quantities, we would have many unhappy customers if we launch an upgrade which can only be supplied to a part of our customer base, on the other hand because parts which can be widely available today can have 6-12 month lead times next week. We have made very considerable investments in developing upgrades, but they're all holding for parts availability. Silly enough the next wave of projects under development now could even become available before the already completed projects as we selected and bought the parts before even starting development. This may make these products costlier as we may end up discarding parts due to unsuitability. For example we currently have a different microcontroller managing the BPS remote control interface as the one we selected before had a detrimental effect on sound quality while it should not have an effect at all!

Sound quality in fact is one of the main delays of XDMS right now as some code sneaked in worsening sound quality from solidly above to significantly below TAS level. The offending code has been identified meanwhile however it means that a significant amount of coding needs to be redone.

It's not an easy world to live in right now needing to maintain a certain level of sound quality standards while facing supply chain challenges, increased workloads and personnel shortages.

However we are not discouraged in any way and are making daily progress, impatient, of course as we are really looking forward to have you all hear the fruits of our hard labour, but I can only answer ASAP to when new developments release.

I’m guessing it would not be practical to initially release a bare-bones version of XDMS with basic music playing functionality and sq enhancements— while the further (non sq based) software complexities are finished in the background?

 

[Christiaan Punter]

I’m guessing it would not be practical to initially release a bare-bones version of XDMS with basic music playing functionality and sq enhancements— while the further (non sq based) software complexities are finished in the background?

That would not be practical indeed, nor even feasible, since the major part that is currently causing the delay is a core piece of software that is responsible for the sound quality. The continued aim is to release XDMS as soon as we can, but only after it performs the way we envision. After that, we will indeed add other functionalities in successive versions.

 

[austinpop]

I use Trax Audio SACD Extractor. Works well for me

I've not used this, nor Xrecode previously mentioned by another poster.

These may well be fine products, but do verify the exact extraction method, as many such tools in the past have used a conversion to PCM in the flow, which completely destroys the purpose of the extraction.

 

[cat6man]

Hi Marcus, I've experienced this issue where the first few frames were being chopped off tracks upon sample rate changes not only with Roon and the C1 but also with other servers and DACs in the past. I don't recall the specifics but I believe it was not Roon at that time. "Resync Delay", as Roon calls it, does not fix the issue, at least not in my case with the CH C1. At this point, I can only assume that if we implemented similar functionality in XDMS that it would also not fix it. Maybe Emile could chime in to confirm but I'm afraid that it is a hardware matter that cannot be solved in external software. I've accepted this issue for my personal part but remain on the lookout and if I or anyone else in the Taiko team comes across a solution, this will certainly get implemented.

With my totaldac and local files, I also lose a bit of music when the data rate changes.

It seems like a buffering/ synch issue. A simple software fix might be to insert silence for X msec at the new data rate to allow the DAC to sync. The only loss I see there is you wouldn't have gapless playback across changing data rates, which I don't think anyone would object to.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

With my totaldac and local files, I also lose a bit of music when the data rate changes.

It seems like a buffering/ synch issue. A simple software fix might be to insert silence for X msec at the new data rate to allow the DAC to sync. The only loss I see there is you wouldn't have gapless playback across changing data rates, which I don't think anyone would object to.

AFAIK, inserting silence at the sample rate of the upcoming file is precisely what Roon's Resync Delay and other such methods do. Still, it doesn't always fix the issue.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

I've not used this, nor Xrecode previously mentioned by another poster.

These may well be fine products, but do verify the exact extraction method, as many such tools in the past have used a conversion to PCM in the flow, which completely destroys the purpose of the extraction.

I don't know about the methods of extraction but surely an intermediate step to PCM is not ideal. That said, many DACs also convert to PCM internally, prior to converting to analog. And I know first hand that this can also sound very good. I guess it's all in the implementation.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Hi Christiaan. I have never used Roon. This is an issue between TAS and the MSB dac. Edward is aware of my, let's call it irritation with the hand-off between the two devices. In my case, it's the Reference dac, but I seem to recall it reported in fora for other models.

I will confess to being disappointed that this isn't on the roadmap for the initial XDMS release, as it has been an issue for some time.

As a reviewer and audio honcho, you are likely aware that the Extreme and MSB Ref dac amounts to about $100K worth of audio equipment that has a fundamental communication issue, ergo my irritation. If there is something I can do on my end, I'm all ears. Caveat: Roon is not part of the solution set for me.

I have never heard this from MSB owners before, nor have I experienced it when using them myself. I only know this is there for Totaldac due to the FIFO buffer in its reclocker. I would think this is due to something else.

 

[cat6man]

AFAIK, inserting silence at the sample rate of the upcoming file is precisely what Roon's Resync Delay and other such methods do. Still, it doesn't always fix the issue.

i trust Emile's team is a lot more talented and can get this right.
still, not a high priority item here.

 

[ACHiPo]

You could indeed use the Aurender just like a network drive via its share. But note that the Extreme sounds best when the music is played back from its internal storage.

This would just be to grab the files I want off the Aurender, then the Aurender will go off to a new home. That said I will have a bridge Wed.

 

[Christiaan Punter]

This would just be to grab the files I want off the Aurender, then the Aurender will go off to a new home. That said I will have a bridge Wed.

Ok, in that case, there are no reservations, and I wish you happy listening!

 

[ACHiPo]

89 hours in, most files transferred, and I’m getting shivers listening to Shelly Manne and Bill Evans Empathy. This is after being very pleasantly surprised when I turned my system on first thing this morning and Eva Cassidy was belting out some blues. I think I’m gonna like this new box!

 

[Steve Williams]

89 hours in, most files transferred, and I’m getting shivers listening to Shelly Manne and Bill Evans Empathy. This is after being very pleasantly surprised when I turned my system on first thing this morning and Eva Cassidy was belting out some blues. I think I’m gonna like this new box!

Resist the temptation and Let the force be with you. Listening to the Extreme as a new user is truly another epiphany I experienced as well in my first few days with the Extreme. Enjoy. It'll be difficult to get up from your seat when your wife is yelling that dinner is on the table and getting cold

 

[ACHiPo]

Resist the temptation and Let the force be with you. Listening to the Extreme as a new user is truly another epiphany I experienced as well in my first few days with the Extreme. Enjoy. It'll be difficult to get up from your seat when your wife is yelling that dinner is on the table and getting cold

Steve,
I do most of the cooking, so the yelling may be more about somebody being hungry than me delaying dinner.
Evan

 

[ctydwn]

On a topic that has been written about every 100-200 pages on this thread, re: benefits of occasionally restarting the Extreme (and other gear?)....

I had 5 hours of uninterrupted listening time tonight.
I figure I have had my system running constantly for the last ~6 weeks including the aforementioned 6 days straight of streaming.

I listened to the same set of ~10 songs for the first 2 hours tonight (streaming through TAS or off the Extreme directly). Sounded just fine, but felt a bit flat and recessed. Then, I recollected the rec that has been sprinkled throughout on this thread to try restarting the Extreme occasionally (restarting = front button on Extreme or through TAS app; not switch on back of Extreme).

I let 3-4 songs play (as Emile has recommended for the Extreme to resettle), I also switched my dac, pre and amps to standby and back on for kickers.

And, for the final 2 hours I have been immersed and captivated. Dynamics and presence back in my room. I have no clue what is happening (perhaps my cache was too large and impacting performance? no idea). But, I am headed back to listen and re-reconfirm what I am hearing. One caveat, is my power improving over the course of the night?

Seems random, but, at least for TAS and my current system, I might try this every few days, to refresh. Will be curious whether XDMS might behave differently (again, not even knowing whether this is related to the Extreme and/or TAS directly). Thanks for listening to my neurosis.

QUICK UPDATE (24 hours later): Listening at the same time, to the same songs, with the same pint glass that I initially spoke of. I am now glued back in to my seat whereas I was not before the reset last night. Some may question my mental state , but will trust my ears and will try this practice once a week to soft restart my Extreme.

Exciting to see new users entering the fold and feeling the joy.

Reminder to myself and potential suggestion to others... every so often (2-3 weeks) try that soft restart of the Extreme (using front button). Worst case, after 3-4 songs, the SQ will be back to the same. Best case, some cobwebs will somehow clear and it will be like you washed your windshield after a long road trip.

Just did this and I am blissed out again. Similar to my prior post (6/1) description above. Emile has discussed explanations on June 8th as well as in prior years.
I remain all TAS, all the time.
Enjoy!!

 

[wil]

Exciting to see new users entering the fold and feeling the joy.

Reminder to myself and potential suggestion to others... every so often (2-3 weeks) try that soft restart of the Extreme (using front button). Worst case, after 3-4 songs, the SQ will be back to the same. Best case, some cobwebs will somehow clear and it will be like you washed your windshield after a long road trip.

Just did this and I am blissed out again. Similar to my June 1, prior post description above.
I remain all TAS, all the time.
Enjoy!!

Does anyone have a technical explanation for this?

 

[2ndLiner]

Does anyone have a technical explanation for this?

At the risk of being overly technical, Will, clearly it’s a case of goats in the machine…