Upcoming Nagra turntable

[Bonesy Jonesy]

I’ll try to measure it tonight.
Right, the central metal part of the platter is lower than the rest of the platter. The washer is at the same height as the main platter. When you screw down the clamp, it must press the label part of the record into the washer - it may even make the label concave (as viewed from the top).
What I found with lacquer records, which have a metal core, there was a need to really tighten the clamp on one side — too much for my liking, so I removed the washer and didn’t use the clamp. But that does affect the sound negatively. I’ll try with the clamp very loosely tightened so it acts more as a weight…

Thank you 'Zeotrope'. Much appreciated.

 

[Holmz]

What are you talking about? If you’re referring to the Hiendy video of the Nagra, the results are in the video. (Not that I would call it a “high powered analysis”, but it’s there.) Try watching the video first

I watched it, but my grasp of the language is poor.
That “High-endy” thing (video) doesn’t do it for me…

 

[mtemur]

I watched it, but my grasp of the language is poor.
That “High-endy” thing (video) doesn’t do it for me…

+1

Maybe @Zeotrope will share the results that we couldn’t see.

 

[Zeotrope]

I watched it, but my grasp of the language is poor.
That “High-endy” thing (video) doesn’t do it for me…

Right. I used the translate captions option. I expect it to perform very well in the instrumented test for speed accuracy, etc., given Nagra’s experience with R2R machines. I’m sure there will be reviews coming, Fremer will likely publish one.

 

[Zeotrope]

Wanted to share a comparison between the Air Force One Premium and the Nagra Anniversary. This comes from the Thai dealer for both brands (so they are company agnostic).

“Airforce One Premium is an accurate player while the Nagra Anni turntable is a charming nice harmonic one. Both of them are on same level. It is just matter of personal choice.”

Great for Nagra for developing a product that offers something different (at a slightly lower price) than one of the world’s best turntable manufacturers.

I am really impressed by the technical innovations Nagra has developed for their turntable. Once their patents are filed and reviews are published, I think the level of innovation will become more clear than it is now.

 

[BillK]

Great for Nagra for developing a product that offers something different (at a slightly lower price) than one of the world’s best turntable manufacturers.

I am really impressed by the technical innovations Nagra has developed for their turntable. Once their patents are filed and reviews are published, I think the level of innovation will become more clear than it is now.

Though the Nagra doesn't provide vacuum hold down, IMHO one of the biggest reason to get a TechDAS table.

If your record is at all warped, which about 85% of mine are, even right out of the shrink-wrap when new, your cartridge on the Nagra will be going for the same roller coaster ride as on most of our other tables.

On the TechDAS it will be rock solid, and like any non-vacuum hold town table I've tried, tapping on the record itself while playing will not be completely silent.

 

[adrianywu]

Though the Nagra doesn't provide vacuum hold down, IMHO one of the biggest reason to get a TechDAS table.

If your record is at all warped, which about 85% of mine are, even right out of the shrink-wrap when new, your cartridge on the Nagra will be going for the same roller coaster ride as on most of our other tables.

On the TechDAS it will be rock solid, and like any non-vacuum hold town table I've tried, tapping on the record itself while playing will not be completely silent.

Use one of these to flatten your LPs: https://recordpi.com/
I am wary of using vacuum hold down unless the record is scrupulously cleaned before play every time.
Some people buy two LPs and only play one side on each, leaving the other side to face the vacuum.

 

[BillK]

That makes no sense.

The vacuum isn't strong enough to either damage the record itself or to embed any dirt into it.

 

[Zeotrope]

I

Though the Nagra doesn't provide vacuum hold down, IMHO one of the biggest reason to get a TechDAS table.

If your record is at all warped, which about 85% of mine are, even right out of the shrink-wrap when new, your cartridge on the Nagra will be going for the same roller coaster ride as on most of our other tables.

On the TechDAS it will be rock solid, and like any non-vacuum hold town table I've tried, tapping on the record itself while playing will not be completely silent.

I have either flattened or discarded my warped records. I would never play a warped record on such expensive turntables (cartridges) anyway.
The fact that Fremer’s K3 doesn’t have vacuum hold and he owns it tells me it’s not essential. It’s just another factor that you trade-off.

 

[Argonaut]

Though the Nagra doesn't provide vacuum hold down, IMHO one of the biggest reason to get a TechDAS table.

If your record is at all warped, which about 85% of mine are, even right out of the shrink-wrap when new, your cartridge on the Nagra will be going for the same roller coaster ride as on most of our other tables.

On the TechDAS it will be rock solid, and like any non-vacuum hold town table I've tried, tapping on the record itself while playing will not be completely silent.

Vacuum hold down was one of a number of reasons that drew me toward the Vyger Indian Sig IV : It isn’t some vacuous gimmick ( see what I did there )

 

[bonzo75]

I

I have either flattened or discarded my warped records. I would never play a warped record on such expensive turntables (cartridges) anyway.
The fact that Fremer’s K3 doesn’t have vacuum hold and he owns it tells me it’s not essential. It’s just another factor that you trade-off.

the quality records are old and used so chances are you will get many warped. Yes you could use a flattener. Or you could use a vacuum. You have to keep records clean. Fremer’s continuum had the vacuum.

 

[adrianywu]

That makes no sense.

The vacuum isn't strong enough to either damage the record itself or to embed any dirt into it.

My first experience with vacuum hold down was the Luxman PD300, and that was a problem with dirt on the record. We did not have ultrasonic cleaners in those days. The vacuum also has the advantage of better coupling the disc to the platter. However, it is still better to have a flat record. I keep all my LPs tightly packed on a shelf and rarely has problem with warps.

 

[Zeotrope]

New review: https://www.soundstageglobal.com/in...-and-siltech-shoot-sparks-out-of-jason-thorpe

The Nagra TT is going down as a seminal product. I think history will look back on this table as a trend-setter, with trickle-down tech.

@BillK - to your earlier point:

On the TechDAS it will be rock solid, and like any non-vacuum hold town table I've tried, tapping on the record itself while playing will not be completely silent.

Rock solid on the Nagra as well:

The fluid-damped sprung suspension has self-resonance of less than 3Hz. As Laflamme demonstrated by a hard knock on the shelf supporting the ’table, nothing gets through.

 

[Solypsa]

@Zeotrope Are you getting one?

 

[BillK]

I'm not sure why banging on the table has become the standard test for turntable isolation.

While important, I'm more impressed when tapping on the plinth generates no sound in the speakers.

For example, you can tap directly on the record while playing on the TechDAS tables and will hear no effect.

For me, I believe that you don't want any vibrations other than that of the stylus in the groove to be reproduced; when the stylus can pick up any mechanical vibrations of the LP being played itself that seems like an issue; perhaps others feel differently.

 

[Zeotrope]

Agreed, Bill. I’m not sure how banging on the table is realistic as you’ll never encounter that while playing. Maybe just to show if it can overcome that kind of extreme vibration, it can isolate from less extreme?

 

[mtemur]

I'm not sure why banging on the table has become the standard test for turntable isolation.

While important, I'm more impressed when tapping on the plinth generates no sound in the speakers.

For example, you can tap directly on the record while playing on the TechDAS tables and will hear no effect.

I have seen some extreme examples of isolation like tapping on the record while playing returns no feedback on speakers. IMHO/IME tapping on platter, record or the plinth is not the proper isolation test cause by doing this turntable's isolation system is bypassed. The proper way of testing isolation is; tapping the platform/stand where turntable sits while stylus is in the groove without platter spinning. If you want to include platform's isolation in the chain you can test it by putting your foot down on the floor.

 

[No Regrets]

Does anyone know if this table will be playing at Axpona?

 

[BillK]

I have seen some extreme examples of isolation like tapping on the record while playing returns no feedback on speakers. IMHO/IME tapping on platter, record or the plinth is not the proper isolation test cause by doing this turntable's isolation system is bypassed. The proper way of testing isolation is; tapping the platform/stand where turntable sits while stylus is in the groove without platter spinning. If you want to include platform's isolation in the chain you can test it by putting your foot down on the floor.

All isolation does is prevent vibrations from getting to the record/stylus interface.

Thus if tapping on the record itself cannot be heard, vibration elsewhere will be of little concern, either.

I've used many a table where tapping on the surface on which they sat made no sound, but drumming your fingers on the plinth sounded like playing a drum set.

The key is to stop those vibrations from affecting what is going from the LP to the stylus.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Wanted to share a comparison between the Air Force One Premium and the Nagra Anniversary. This comes from the Thai dealer for both brands (so they are company agnostic).

Great for Nagra for developing a product that offers something different (at a slightly lower price) than one of the world’s best turntable manufacturers.

I am really impressed by the technical innovations Nagra has developed for their turntable. Once their patents are filed and reviews are published, I think the level of innovation will become more clear than it is now.

“. . . the Nagra Anni turntable is a charming nice harmonic one.”

This would be very impressive to me if it is true. I am a bit skeptical to start with when a manufacturer who has never made a particular type of component before aims for state-of-the-art on the first attempt.

I was afraid Nagra might have as a philosophy maximum damping of all vibration.