The SME Model 60 and OMA K3 use system approaches too. You can only get those two arms on those two turntables, they are no sold separately. The tables will accept other arms if the owner really wants, so I suppose they are slightly more flexible than is this Nagra.
Upcoming Nagra turntable
- Thread starter matakana
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The SME Model 60 and OMA K3 use system approaches too. You can only get those two arms on those two turntables, they are no sold separately. The tables will accept other arms if the owner really wants, so I suppose they are slightly more flexible than is this Nagra.
Good point. Thank you. What about the phono stage and phono cable, everything from the stylus tip to the preamp input? That would be the whole source system approach.
Another good point. The Nagra arm has a captive cable (but an optional termination box) that is supposedly "specially selected" to mate with their cartridge and phono stage (soon to be stages when the HD Phono is released).
You can remove the tonearm cable, it's not captive. Watch the Fremer video where he films the way the cable is threaded through the arm.
Nagra doesn’t make cartridges. Writing Nagra over a cartridge doesn’t turn it into a in-house product. AFAIK it’s an EMT. So no difference with SME and OMA turntable packages in this respect. Additionally both Nagra and OMA don’t make their tonearms but SME does.
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In my opinion, They did a bit more than writing Nagra over an existing EMT model....
Completely agree.
What's with the negativity from some members here?? In this hobby more than others it seems, some feel the need to put down something to make themselves feel better about their own gear.
Makes no sense. By that logic, no one makes anything "unique" - every completed product is a sum of products fabricated by partners.
Nothing EMT makes is remotely close to this... maybe stop trolling this thread. All of your posts are so negative.
No, they're objective. Your posts are total Nagra fanboy posts.
Maybe you should stop promoting.
It should make sense. I didn't say that a company should manufacture everything. I just pointed out two things:
1. Nagra is no different than OMA and SME by offering a cartridge cause it's outsourced from EMT (AFAIK).
2. Not offering a cartridge by OMA and SME is not a disadvantage or an incomplete package.
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Just don't feed the troll.
If one cannot comprehend the simple concept of OEM, there's no point in further discussion with him/her.
Ok, tell me what is the concept of OEM? Explain the difference between OMA, SME and Nagra turntables?
But first read my prior posts if you are able to “comprehend”.
A couple observations ...
Manufacturer does not necessarily mean sole designer. Companies who have cartridges made for them can have input to the product that bears their name. Such branded cartridges can have their own sonic signature.
Many discrete cartridge manufacturers who put their own name on product don't manufacture everything that goes into their cartridges. It is not uncommon for them to obtain parts for use in their products from companies such as Orbray. Pick your stylus style, pick your cantilever material, pick your cantilever length, etc.
Manufacturer does not necessarily mean sole designer. Companies who have cartridges made for them can have input to the product that bears their name. Such branded cartridges can have their own sonic signature.
Many discrete cartridge manufacturers who put their own name on product don't manufacture everything that goes into their cartridges. It is not uncommon for them to obtain parts for use in their products from companies such as Orbray. Pick your stylus style, pick your cantilever material, pick your cantilever length, etc.
One of the most interesting technical aspects of the Nagra Turntable, which I have not seen anywhere else, is the super capacitor based energy source directly under the platter (in addition to the substantial external PSU). Why the need for what is essentially a battery (that can be discharged must faster than any traditional battery) right beside the motor, when you have a PSU only a few meters away?
It must be to be able to react to speed/torque changes as quickly as possible during playback.
I see other high end tables talk about how many times per second they measure speed (e.g., OMA); but speed detection and speed adjustment are two very different things. You can measure speed a billion times a second but if you cannot react with the same frequency, it doesn't really matter. Being able to react quickly is ensuring the power supply can react quickly - any electric motor can change speed quickly, but how quickly it can be supplied with current is critical.
You'll also note that speed detection occurs periodically but not during playback. So the ability to respond to changes in friction during playback must be done via a separate system that is almost certainly faster than speed detection.
I think what happens is that once the speed is set, then any deviation from that is compensated for via a system that obviously involves the super cap bank.
There's so much tech in this table that hasn't been disclosed. I hope Nagra does choose to disclose more. When OMA makes it seem like cast iron is high tech, it would be great for more people to realize what true high-tech engineering looks like
It must be to be able to react to speed/torque changes as quickly as possible during playback.
I see other high end tables talk about how many times per second they measure speed (e.g., OMA); but speed detection and speed adjustment are two very different things. You can measure speed a billion times a second but if you cannot react with the same frequency, it doesn't really matter. Being able to react quickly is ensuring the power supply can react quickly - any electric motor can change speed quickly, but how quickly it can be supplied with current is critical.
You'll also note that speed detection occurs periodically but not during playback. So the ability to respond to changes in friction during playback must be done via a separate system that is almost certainly faster than speed detection.
I think what happens is that once the speed is set, then any deviation from that is compensated for via a system that obviously involves the super cap bank.
There's so much tech in this table that hasn't been disclosed. I hope Nagra does choose to disclose more. When OMA makes it seem like cast iron is high tech, it would be great for more people to realize what true high-tech engineering looks like
One of the most interesting technical aspects of the Nagra Turntable, which I have not seen anywhere else, is the super capacitor based energy source directly under the platter (in addition to the substantial external PSU). Why the need for what is essentially a battery (that can be discharged must faster than any traditional battery) right beside the motor, when you have a PSU only a few meters away?
It must be to be able to react to speed/torque changes as quickly as possible during playback.
I see other high end tables talk about how many times per second they measure speed (e.g., OMA); but speed detection and speed adjustment are two very different things. You can measure speed a billion times a second but if you cannot react with the same frequency, it doesn't really matter. Being able to react quickly is ensuring the power supply can react quickly - any electric motor can change speed quickly, but how quickly it can be supplied with current is critical.
You'll also note that speed detection occurs periodically but not during playback. So the ability to respond to changes in friction during playback must be done via a separate system that is almost certainly faster than speed detection.
I think what happens is that once the speed is set, then any deviation from that is compensated for via a system that obviously involves the super cap bank.
There's so much tech in this table that hasn't been disclosed. I hope Nagra does choose to disclose more. When OMA makes it seem like cast iron is high tech, it would be great for more people to realize what true high-tech engineering looks like
I am as big of a fan boi as the next fellow or lady… but…
Let’s pretend that we do not know what tech is, and do not know whether it is high tech or low tech.
Since they did not exactly tell us, it is not a far stretch.
Secondly how much impulse do we need to impart into the motor to adjust its speed?
A well trained hamster should be able to keep it running.
It is not like a Shinkansen bullet train leaving Tokyo station, where a lot of energy goes from electrical to kinetic.
A more likely reason, in my feeble mind, is that a super capacitor is damned hard to get noise into and out of.
The BPS phono stage had a battery, which also disconnects one from the electrical grid.
I would find noise to be a more likely reason than some “mega amperes of current dump”, into an almost frictionless system.
Don’t disagree at all; but the supercaps located right next to the motors are not just for noise reduction. Using a well shielded good quality DC cable (as Nagra does) from the external PSU to the component would be sufficient to reduce noise. The supercaps in the component must be to improve current delivery time.
Maybe… But if there was an inductor further towards the incoming power, then it be more likely it was part of a power conditioning approach.
It would be interesting to see the schematic.
Indeed, would love to see the schematic too.
Just watched the new video from my friend Jonathan at OMA regarding the K5, and how you can brush the vinyl surface during playback and the speed won’t change. Tried this “test” on my Nagra TT and there was no change to the sound. Weiss makes it seem like this is a rare feature of the K5. I don’t know enough to comment, but it’s certainly not exclusive to the K3/5.
I would think most direct drive turntables with speed correction and strong motors could pass that test. Some belt drive tables perhaps not, but the real test is stylus drag, not a record cleaning brush.
I can brush a record while it’s playing and the speed changes very slightly, from say 33.333 to 33.330 but not enough for me to detect it and that represents much more drag than a stylus would.
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