in the eyes of the forum spirit puba.

Bonzo as the Jack Bailey of WBF...

"Each contestant was asked to talk about the recent financial and emotional hard times she had been through. The interview would climax with Bailey asking the contestant what she needed most and why she wanted to win the title of Queen for a Day.[3] Often the request was for medical care or therapeutic equipment to help a chronically ill child, or might be for a hearing aid, a new washing machine, or a refrigerator. Many women broke down sobbing as they described their plights.

The winning contestant was selected by the audience using an applause meter; the harsher the contestant's situation, the likelier the studio audience was to ring the applause meter's highest level. The winner, to the musical accompaniment of "Pomp and Circumstance", would be draped in a sable-trimmed red velvet robe, given a glittering jeweled crown to wear, placed on a velvet-upholstered throne, and handed a dozen long-stemmed roses to hold while her list of prizes was announced." (Ref)
 

Dave Brubeck "Take Five"
If ever I saw a need for a big screen.

With the accessible data rates these days and the ability of quality servers able to dish up great sound and visuals I would take the leap.

If I were you, that is. Which I am not;)
 
Enthusiastic critique always is welcome! (Although I find enthusiastic in-the-room critique of vastly greater probative value than remote video critique.)

I am hearing largely the same thing as you and as Peter in direction, but not in amplitude, so to speak.

In other words I hear clearly in the room the bass bump around 60Hz. It's an audible boom which masks texture and detail somewhat above and somewhat below that frequency. (In fact the reason I started with the real time analyzer measurements is because I subjectively heard early on the 60Hz room boom myself.) This is definitely a mechanical problem to be solved with a mechanical solution.

Subjectively, the bass frequencies should not be drawing attention to themselves, but I am not personally looking for a subjectively perceived flat bass response.

The ribbon drivers put out a lot of energy, more energy than the Magnepan 1.6s. Some visitors are perceiving this as a little bit bright in the upper midrange, other visitors are not. I am perceiving it as a little bit bright in the upper midrange, especially on LP. I hear it as a touch shrill on certain piano key licks.

Ideally, for my ears, I will be able to dampen some of this upper midrange energy. I would like to nudge lower the perceived sonic center of gravity of the system. This is where loudspeaker toe-in experimentation (although such experimentation so far has suggested that the sound doesn't change very much) and some acoustic treatment experimentation, and maybe some amplifier tube swapping, will come in.

No loudspeaker is perfect, in my opinion. These speakers are never going to have the upper bass/lower midrange sonic center of gravity we hear and like from David's Bionors. There are specific reasons I prefer panels in general and these speakers in particular to Bionors and to other vintage loudspeakers which have a similar (and very natural to my ears) upper bass/lower midrange sonic center of gravity. And yet as natural as those loudspeakers sound, I sometimes can't avoid the nagging sense that "something is missing."

In summary, the bass emphasis is an objective problem needing fixing. Specifically, I would like to shave off that 5dB bump circled in red. The upper midrange energy is more subjective and more complicated. I and others hear it more on LP than on tape. Ideally, I will be able to tamp it down a little bit.
If your "passive" attempts ( room treatments, panel alignment, seating position, etc.) fail to provide you the target tonal balance you hope for, perhaps an "active" solution might be an option.... IE: A very high quality equaliser.... yep I know, adding an equaliser to an extreme high end system seems anathema.....however there are some that are supposedly very good. The Accuphase DG-68 comes to mind. I believe Jason Victor Serious reviewed it in Stereophile a few years ago. He was quite taken by it, as I recall.
Anyway, food for thought.
Cheers....
 
(...) I find the argument that "there aren't enough tapes to make it worthwhile" to be specious and lazy. So what if it's only 20 or 30 tapes? Those 20 or 30 tapes will help you understand at a higher level what this hobby is all about. (...)

Different people, different musical preferences and sensitivities.

I also own these 20 or 30 tapes, some of them the same tapes as you - the TapeProject tapes, including the great sounding Bill Evans Waltz for Debby. But none of them as created a feeling of suspension of disbelief in me as Jordi Savall les Routes de l'esclavage DSD or Haitink Shostakovitch 8th Decca redbook played in my system with the XLF.

Or even Michael Fremer about a digital sourced LP (stereophile SF Aida II review)
"At around 2am, as the reverberation of the Ninth's last notes faded away, I found myself exhausted, overwhelmed, and somewhat disoriented, all in the most pleasurable way, by the most convincing illusion I've ever experienced—by a considerable margin—of having been transported from my modestly sized listening room to a concert hall (the Berlin Philharmonie).

I haven't heard the multi-miked version. I have sets of the Beethoven symphonies by Bernstein, Karajan, Klemperer, Leibowitz, Walter, and Paavo Järvi—all of them sound good, some better than others. This new one from Rattle and Berlin might be the most spatially together and believable of all, and it's digital. Of course, I think the reason for this is the minimal M/S miking. The digits are just how it's originally stored, and the software keeps getting better."


For me what this hobby is all about are not the fabulous great moments of exceptional quality, but mostly the great sound reproduction I enjoy most of the time - yesterday I was listening to Winterreise Matthias Goerne and Christoph Eschenbach and felt really happy with my system!

 
[QUOTE="Ron Resnick, post: 865904, member:

In other words I hear clearly in the room the bass bump around 60Hz. It's an audible boom which masks texture and detail somewhat above and somewhat below that frequency. (In fact the reason I started with the real time analyzer measurements is because I subjectively heard early on the 60Hz room boom myself.) This is definitely a mechanical problem to be solved with a mechanical solution.

Subjectively, the bass frequencies should not be drawing attention to themselves, but I am not personally looking for a subjectively perceived flat
[/QUOTE]

Ron.. at the risk of going on about it too much :) the curve I drew on your fr plot back in the thread is where you should be ... if the Ipad is correct I dont think the 60hz peak is a big problem .. it is more that you have a sag between that and about 1khz which emphasizes the bass peak, makes the mid bass leaner and emphasizes .. I am sure gryphon would have have an excellent fr resonse curve so this would be room related as you say.
It may be that first reflections off side walls are boosting upper fr and distorting plot or you are getting some cancellation from front wall reflections on dipole response .. I would be playing around with moving speakers back and forth and further in from side walls before I jumped to acoustic treatments. That can become a patch apon a patch ... ad infinitum

If you would rather not move speakers in try your round thingos at first reflection points on side walls
My 2 bobs worth
Phil
 
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If ever I saw a need for a big screen.

With the accessible data rates these days and the ability of quality servers able to dish up great sound and visuals I would take the leap.

If I were you, that is. Which I am not;)

Thank you, but mixing video with the audio is anathema to me. In the next room over we have a small dedicated home theater room with mercifully simple components.

For some reason watching videos of music concerts does nothing for me.
 
If your "passive" attempts ( room treatments, panel alignment, seating position, etc.) fail to provide you the target tonal balance you hope for, perhaps an "active" solution might be an option.... IE: A very high quality equaliser.... yep I know, adding an equaliser to an extreme high end system seems anathema.....however there are some that are supposedly very good. The Accuphase DG-68 comes to mind. I believe Jason Victor Serious reviewed it in Stereophile a few years ago. He was quite taken by it, as I recall.
Anyway, food for thought.
Cheers....

Thank you for the suggestion. But you are right -- anathema to me.

Any equalizer will occasion some loss of transparency.
 
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I took some additional FR measurements today. Interestingly with the test microphone about 32" in front of the current listening position the bass bump moves from 60Hz to close to 40Hz.


AT CURRENT LISTENING POSITION
183D9BDC-D0E5-48A1-8F32-9D69703ADDA2.png


32" IN FRONT OF CURRENT LISTENING POSITION
E148DE28-0510-4A17-8AA7-D65401C166E2.png
 
I took some additional FR measurements today. Interestingly with the test microphone about 32" in front of the current listening position the bass bump moves from 60Hz to close to 40Hz.


AT CURRENT LISTENING POSITION
View attachment 106855


32" IN FRONT OF CURRENT LISTENING POSITION
View attachment 106854
Ron, if you can get that 40 hz bump down into the 30's, it's party time!
 
I would suggest much smaller increments with seating position. I also like the idea of moving the towers closer together to see if it sounds less thin and with longer delay between direct sound and first reflection. Is the glass wall to the kitchen causing the brightness? What happens when you fold up the glass panels so you have openings on both sides more symmetrical?
 
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I would suggest much smaller increments with seating position.

That doesn't matter here. The decline in frequency of the room boom is linear as the microphone moves forward towards the speakers.
 
I also like the idea of moving the towers closer together to see if it sounds less thin and with longer delay between direct sound and first reflection.

Direct sound and backwave reflection delay depends upon the distance between the speakers and the front wall, not upon the distance between the speakers.
 
Is the glass wall to the kitchen causing the brightness?

No, no one has any sense that the glass wall of the kitchen is causing any brightness or reflection.
 
What happens when you fold up the glass panels so you have openings on both sides more symmetrical?

I have not tried that yet, only because, to my surprise, no one has any sense that the glass wall is causing any problem.
 
Ron, at risk of considering the obvious since you are not experiencing a hot upper octave via tape it is perhaps worth checking that your cartridge / phono are all as they should be .
 
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perhaps worth checking that your cartridge / phono are all as they should be .

I checked the cartridge. I hereby confirm it is mounted to the tonearm!
 

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