That is interesting. I thought it was speaker type and efficiency followed by proper amp matching.
Speaker room interaction can vary wildly. My corner horns for instance are very different from dipoles or sealed cones.
Audio Critique
- Thread starter Amir
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That is interesting. I thought it was speaker type and efficiency followed by proper amp matching.
Speaker room interaction can vary wildly. My corner horns for instance are very different from dipoles or sealed cones.
The question is how to write a good audio review?
a good review will answer to these questions:
1- how that audio component sound ?
A short and clear answer is enough for this question. No need to write many words like robert harley.
2- how we can get best sound from that component?
3- where is the limits and also strength of that component (in depth review)?
4- is it good enough when you compare that component to other components in the price range?
a good review will answer to these questions:
1- how that audio component sound ?
A short and clear answer is enough for this question. No need to write many words like robert harley.
2- how we can get best sound from that component?
3- where is the limits and also strength of that component (in depth review)?
4- is it good enough when you compare that component to other components in the price range?
Peter
I just had one time when speaker was is perfect position. The sound was unbelievable , it was shocking experience. Very few audiophiles know what I say.
how to have good sound?
you have three road to choose :
1- call an expert (Romy, david, Jim smith) and ask him to help you from 0 to 100.
2- start learning from experts and setup the system by yourself
3- start learning from Audio Press and Audiophiles and audio reviewers and audio forums and ...
the 3 is the awful way and I bet you will lost your time/money/effort and the result is awful. all the time you will think about changing the audio hardware and ... it is like going to hell.
the 2 is not easy and it needs smart IQ and lots of effort, if you are young then you may find the right way after 5 years.
the 1 is the best way if you access to experts.
you have three road to choose :
1- call an expert (Romy, david, Jim smith) and ask him to help you from 0 to 100.
2- start learning from experts and setup the system by yourself
3- start learning from Audio Press and Audiophiles and audio reviewers and audio forums and ...
the 3 is the awful way and I bet you will lost your time/money/effort and the result is awful. all the time you will think about changing the audio hardware and ... it is like going to hell.
the 2 is not easy and it needs smart IQ and lots of effort, if you are young then you may find the right way after 5 years.
the 1 is the best way if you access to experts.
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If you lack expertise and/or time, subcontracting an "expert" is a good idea. If I were to setup a dedicated listening room,for example, I would definitely seek the help of an acoustics expert.
But in terms of equipment, I would recommend simply auditioning systems by visiting shows and/or dealers to find out what type of sound one likes. Perhaps "experts" can be of some guidance, but I would never recommend relying solely on their opinion.
But in terms of equipment, I would recommend simply auditioning systems by visiting shows and/or dealers to find out what type of sound one likes. Perhaps "experts" can be of some guidance, but I would never recommend relying solely on their opinion.
I think you need a lot of experience before you even reach the point of going to number one.
It's a bit more complicated than that.
Who is even an expert?
The assessment of who is an expert worth listening to is in the eye of the beholder. I would not listen to every self-proclaimed expert, or to everyone who is deemed an expert "by the community". I have seen too many "experts" being wrong or making mistakes.
I don't have blind faith in "authority".
I am rather inclined to listen to many different opinions and experiment for myself, and have been quite successful with that approach.
With all due respect, how do you know what other audiophiles experience?
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My question is different, so perhaps it follows that my path might be too: How to have good music?
Thank you Peter
If you check this forum you will see Ron Resnick is thinking about his VTL pre-amplifier and he cares what other say about VTL vs X vs Y vs Z vs ...
Bonzo think there are better preamps than VTL
Michael Fremer wrote good review about VTL
Roy gregory likes VTL ,
...
This is an example of how audiophiles try to improve their sound and you know non of them get good result after changing audio hardware for many times.
I think only smart audiophiles will go out of this Vicious cycle and I just try to say the right way is not only changing hardware.
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About "experts"...I have personally come to the conclusion that in audio, a certain dose of skepticism towards "expert" opinions is healthy.
There are many reasons for this:
- obviously, sometimes people have an agenda, and vested interests
- we do not all have the same expectations, and we are not all sensitive to the same aspects of audio reproduction (and no system does it all). Individual preferences are not always clearly stated.
- The experts are the ones designing the systems (hopefully). There is little expertise involved in assessing components, and little expertise involved in connecting an amplifier to a pair of speakers (though some aspects, such as room acoustics, require some real expertise). Some people have more experience than others, but they may not have a better understanding of audio. They may have formed some convictions, but these are largely circumstancial.
- it is difficult to assess a single component within a system because its performance may be affected, and limited, by other components/aspects of the system
- objective data (measurements) is of limited use
There are many reasons for this:
- obviously, sometimes people have an agenda, and vested interests
- we do not all have the same expectations, and we are not all sensitive to the same aspects of audio reproduction (and no system does it all). Individual preferences are not always clearly stated.
- The experts are the ones designing the systems (hopefully). There is little expertise involved in assessing components, and little expertise involved in connecting an amplifier to a pair of speakers (though some aspects, such as room acoustics, require some real expertise). Some people have more experience than others, but they may not have a better understanding of audio. They may have formed some convictions, but these are largely circumstancial.
- it is difficult to assess a single component within a system because its performance may be affected, and limited, by other components/aspects of the system
- objective data (measurements) is of limited use
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“Experts” is to vague a term. I think Amir is suggesting that some audiophiles have superior experience and knowledge. That does not seem controversial. The key is to understand who they are and to seek out their advice. I did that and learned a lot in the process and shared some of it yesterday.
I spent the afternoon yesterday helping a guy set up his new system. We listened and made some changes to where we could actually hear what was going on, mostly removing silly tweaks and audiophile power cords and wires. Then we repositioned the listening seat and speakers. The sound was utterly transformed.
The next step is setting up his vintage turntable. Until that happens, he told me he thinks he has the most natural and emotionally engaging digital he has ever heard. He will live with it for a while and get to know the system well. Then he will begin the fine tuning.
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So if you are not an expert how do you decide who an expert is? Usually when we don’t know something, people who know more all seem to be experts if we agree with them
Bonzo, by “you“ are you referring to me? If so, I used my own amount of knowledge and experience at the time in whatever subject matters to me to make a judgement. In the case of audiophile experts, the type that Amir is talking about here, I read what they have to write, I talk to them, and I form my opinion. There is always more to learn, and yes, there are always people with more experience and knowledge. I did not know I agreed with ddk until I started experimenting and learning for myself. Agreement only came much later. This process built on itself and I kept comparing what I heard live to what I heard in my room. At some point it was clear I had been following the wrong path for me because it did not get me closer to what I heard live. What I was doing was moving me in the opposite direction.
At some point I began to realize that ddk, and others, have already done these experiments and had been there long before me. Then I heard his various systems in Utah and I knew for myself. It is one thing to hire a set up guy who comes in and installs a cartridge. It is quite another to have a guy say, set it up and then adjust VTA and describe what you hear while referring to live music. One does it for you, the other gently guides you while you do the learning yourself.
Same with speakers. Jim Smith will come and get you to move things while he listens. You listen to what he says and hear the sound and learn some things. Some dealers just did it all for you. I was told to walk around the room talking to myself while listening to my voice. This for speaker and seating locations. Then to aim the speakers straight ahead and keep moving them until they sound most natural, always reference live music.
Who is the expert? You figure that out by paying attention during the learning. Then you go further with that guy and may discover you are only scratching the surface of what you can learn from him.
You write a lot about VYGER and Red Sparrow. I wanted to learn the value of your opinion, so I made an appoint with Chris to hear that combination with Pilium and Magico M9 at Rhapsody DFW. I was there last weekend but the system was not yet ready, so I postponed the appointment and will go next time I am in Dallas. At some point I may find out if what you say about that table/cartridge combination meets my values or not. You do travel more than most and you seem to have learned more about vinyl gear and recordings since you first went to Utah to visit ddk. And you share here, all good things.
Peter
My english language is not good and I should describe my opinion more clear , expert audiophile to me means the man/woman who has higher experience like David.
Bonzo welcome to this topic
I know you listened to many many audio systems and you think you are helping audiophiles when you share your experience but I think this in not enough.
I have wrote about who are experts in this topic .
My english language is not good and I should describe my opinion more clear , expert audiophile to me means the man/woman who has higher experience like David.
Bonzo welcome to this topic
I know you listened to many many audio systems and you think you are helping audiophiles when you share your experience but I think this in not enough.
I have wrote about who are experts in this topic .
No Peter not you particularly, a general you. Amir keeps saying he is not an expert and yet telling people who is and what experts do wrong etc
An “expert” is a person that has studied and continues to study a subject. Experts are typically not peddling their own products but evaluating products and making recommendations. Experts should strive to be impartial and remove any doubts of impartiality by not taking financial compensation from manufacturers.
For example, in the USA we have a magazine called Consumer Reports. They take no advertising dollars and purchase all of their own products (even cars) to evaluate.
For example, in the USA we have a magazine called Consumer Reports. They take no advertising dollars and purchase all of their own products (even cars) to evaluate.
Amir, your English is just fine. I understand exactly what you mean by expert audiophile, and I agree with you.
Please read my caveat on vyger, I have found it to excel on SETs horns because they allow the micro nuances of the better tracking and the higher inflections to go through. SS and complex circuits seem to block this. I have texted Ron as well a few times i will need to listen to vyger RS on Chris’ system to understand how it does on complex circuits in complex crossovers and lots of cabling.
This is my text on 6th feb to another group, “Dava I recommend to anyone and everyone, vyger red sparrow I so far only recommend for classical and jazz and blues to sets horns users”
and this week I heard and compared vyger RS with Dava and I like both. More on that later.
And yes, the cones I did like the Vyger on was Sigma MAAT but that is also 102db and 8 ohm flat.
also, what is your plan to extract what vyger RS does in Chris’ system
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