Can digital get to vinyl sound and at what price?

[christoph]

This thread has just become a place for childish mud slinging. It's embarrassing!!!!

Don't feed the troll
If that doesn't help, use the "ignore" function

 

[wil]

Appreciate it might upset a few folks but as I asked earlier,

how would you describe someone who chooses not to listen to the best recordings of the greatest music ever made?

Music averse, perhaps?

Both you and Soundman ( who confesses to not listening to or being interested in any music produced after 1979) are doing a good job of convincing us that you actually have a sadly narrow appreciation or knowledge of music.

 

[PeterA]

Thanks for telling us of this important detail.



I have explained it several times with detail. Sound engineers have explained. It would have been nice if you disagreed with proper explanations when the arguments were presented, but you prefer to show your ignorance.

Just an individual opinion - as you, I own the Lamm ML3 and LL1. One reason I am trying to sell them is that I find that they sound really great with vinyl, but are not my current preference with digital and I listen mainly to digital.

BTW, I say that a system optimized with vinyl will not sound optimal with digital. Some what different from your sentence.

No worries. We have different experience and different exposure and different opinions. In the case of DDK’s system, the speakers are well matched to his ML3. This has a lot to do with why this system sounds the way it does on both digital and vinyl. By the way, I do not own the ML3. I own the original ML2. They are also well matched to my particular speakers. And digital also sounds good in my system, though I’ve only heard physical CDs.

Yes, I’m fully aware of my ignorance. David explained to me the other day why digital sounds so good in his system. The reason surprised me. You should contact him and ask. Perhaps the reason will surprise you too. The system does not have to be optimized for one or the other as demonstrated by his system. The reason is much more basic.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

There is always the "ignore" function to simplify matters here

Way ahead of you.

 

[Al M.]

The more technical digital process (beyond my ability to convey fully, but generally) is a conversion of the most dominant sound waves (those that would not be heard because of louder waves are by algorithm cut to save on processing and storage)

Oh boy. "Expertise" on digital technology, again.

It does not make a good argument for analog to ignorantly misunderstand and misrepresent digital technology.

Analog fans like you don't help their cause here. Even though there is much to be said in favor of good analog.

"beyond my ability to convey fully" -- indeed.

 

[dcathro]

Yes imagine if someone criticised this thread for childish behaviour while at the same time posting laughing emojis at someone's comment. Now that would be really embarrassing.

You are right, I have posted a couple laughs and likes in here. Perhaps I should have resisted.

I have seen a few sensible posts from some people trying to bridge the divide in opinion. But the thread has just dissolved into bitching.

I run a CD based system, whilst all my audio friends have vinyl. We all get along and enjoy listening to music on each others systems.

I have no interest in convincing anybody in the superiority of any format.

 

[PYP]

There is 'something' in digital that is not in vinyl.

I believe it is a scientific "fact" that we all hear differently and one of my basic assumptions is that some folks are more sensitive to the "something" in digital that will most likely prevent them from enjoying digital fully. On the other hand, there is also a "something" in vinyl that prevents others from being undistracted by the medium while listening to music.

So, was Marshall McLuhan correct regarding the "debate" about these two methods of reproducing music? Is the medium the message?

 

[PeterA]

Extremist statements like this give vinyl enthusiasts a bad name.

Statements like these help no one, and certainly not the case for vinyl.

Al, I don’t put all enthusiasts, vinyl or digital, into the same bucket. Everyone has different levels of experience and knowledge Comments like those only reveal something about the person making the comment, not about all those who like a particular format.

 

[christoph]

Just an individual opinion - as you, I own the Lamm ML3 and LL1. One reason I am trying to sell them is that I find that they sound really great with vinyl, but are not my current preference with digital and I listen mainly to digital.

You "just" need to find a suitable pair of speakers for the ML3

Why don't you open a thread like "What speakers to go with the Lamm ML3?"
And let the forum help you find a match

PS: Peter has the ML2, not the ML3

 

[PeterA]

What is his system composed of?

There is an entire sub forum in the Vinyl Forum on this site dedicated to David Karmeli (ddk) and his system. Some of the threads are fascinating, particularly the one he wrote about his five Beyond Turntables. There are also threads started by people who visited his system and spent time with him in Utah.

 

[Al M.]

Al, I don’t put all enthusiasts, vinyl or digital, into the same bucket. Everyone has different levels of experience and knowledge Comments like those only reveal something about the person making the comment, not about all those who like a particular format.

I agree, but this does not contradict what I said.

Extremist voices on any cause give that cause a bad name.

 

[christoph]

David explained to me the other day why digital sounds so good in his system. The reason surprised me. You should contact him and ask. Perhaps the reason will surprise you too. The system does not have to be optimized for one or the other as demonstrated by his system. The reason is much more basic.

If it is soo simple, why not tell it here?

 

[andromedaaudio]

Guys this hobby is about listening / enjoying music , not about trying to outsmart each other in forum threads .
The level of WBF is going down the drain, lol

 

[SoundMann]

Both you and Soundman ( who confesses to not listening to or being interested in any music produced after 1979) are doing a good job of convincing us that you actually have a sadly narrow appreciation or knowledge of music.

Not so fast! I didn't say that I am uninterested in the few good things that have been made since '79, I meant to say that I no longer listen to any digitally-sourced recordings, even those from my favorite band, Rush.

 

[SoundMann]

The level of WBF is going down the drain, lol

This is still the best audio forum. Our spirited debate changes nothing.

 

[Rensselaer]

Oh boy. "Expertise" on digital technology, again.

It does not make a good argument for analog to ignorantly misunderstand and misrepresent digital technology.

Analog fans like you don't help their cause here. Even though there is much to be said in favor of good analog.

"beyond my ability to convey fully" -- indeed.

I was trying to describe “compression” , perhaps you might shine a more illuminating light on it?

 

[SoundMann]

There is an entire sub forum in the Vinyl Forum on this site dedicated to David Karmeli (ddk) and his system. Some of the threads are fascinating, particularly the one he wrote about his five Beyond Turntables. There are also threads started by people who visited his system and spent time with him in Utah.

I have seen these, but didn't know who he is.

 

[wil]

Al, I don’t put all enthusiasts, vinyl or digital, into the same bucket. Everyone has different levels of experience and knowledge Comments like those only reveal something about the person making the comment, not about all those who like a particular format.

Agreed. The problem with these “discussions” is that they become dominated (infected?) by some with an axe to grind. And they keep grinding and grinding.

They present their fundamentalist views as “fact”, never acknowledging the possibility that their self- proclaimed expertise might be limited.

The wisest people I’ve met are usually acutely aware of how little they actually “know.” They are more interested in continuing to expand and modify their present state of knowledge.

 

[Audiophile666]

No one on planet earth can seriously claim vinyl is better

 

[PeterA]

If it is soo simple, why not tell it here?

Because he told me privately and his opinions are no longer shared here.

By the way Christoph, I never said it was simple, I said it was basic and that it surprised me. Understanding and then implementing the approach correctly is the challenge. Once explained, it made a lot of sense.