I should have written the 'mid-frequency control was set at 0' or flat. Brilliance and low frequency control have no change.
Anyone have Sound Lab electrostatic speakers? I Searched...
- Thread starter jeffreybehr
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Do you know if there is a way for users to modify their Backplates (with adjustable mids) to this new version? I have never used the mid adjustments over 28 years. I have the latest version prior to this new version.
Let me get back to you on that. Should be possible, but I have not been asked that before and I will give a confirmation shortly.
I checked with Roger and I'll paraphrase his response. As usual he always gives a very complete and detailed explanation and I am happy to share that with you but this is probably not the place to do so. If you wish to have more information, please contact me thru my website 'contact'.
In essence Roger does not recommend spending the time/money to change unless you normally play your speakers at very high levels (which is not recommended as you can imagine). The performance difference between metal core and air core is that at high current levels the metal core will saturate and lose inductance, mids frequencies will suffer and have distortion - but only at high levels. Air coil does not saturate. These days many new amplifiers are pushing out much more power and it is easy to push the speaker to limits and even beyond, the air coil prevents any distortion to the mid frequencies, but it is also not a good reason to continuously push the speaker past its intended power rating - the original metal core coil will not saturate if played within the speakers max power rating. You might say this is not so much of an 'upgrade' but a move 'side-ways'. Please let me know if I can be any more help and/or explain further.
In essence Roger does not recommend spending the time/money to change unless you normally play your speakers at very high levels (which is not recommended as you can imagine). The performance difference between metal core and air core is that at high current levels the metal core will saturate and lose inductance, mids frequencies will suffer and have distortion - but only at high levels. Air coil does not saturate. These days many new amplifiers are pushing out much more power and it is easy to push the speaker to limits and even beyond, the air coil prevents any distortion to the mid frequencies, but it is also not a good reason to continuously push the speaker past its intended power rating - the original metal core coil will not saturate if played within the speakers max power rating. You might say this is not so much of an 'upgrade' but a move 'side-ways'. Please let me know if I can be any more help and/or explain further.
The Majestic 745s arrived last week and have been running since Saturday (May 18) evening.. Currently driving them with my PS Audio M1200s, and the combination already sounds VERY nice.
Have much clean-up and some furniture-rearranging to do, and I wish I'd ordered 30"-wide versions, but what's here is staying.. While sounding very resolved and natural, the system now creates a soundstage that is about as tall as the speakers...duh!...and the spaciousness is greater, both of which I LOVE.
More later.
Have much clean-up and some furniture-rearranging to do, and I wish I'd ordered 30"-wide versions, but what's here is staying.. While sounding very resolved and natural, the system now creates a soundstage that is about as tall as the speakers...duh!...and the spaciousness is greater, both of which I LOVE.
More later.
For sure those speakers will serve you and the room wonderfully well for many years. If you do any 'FaceBook' you might check out the group 'Electrostatic Speakers' and show your room. I have a few posts up there recently myself and I am hoping to stir the interest for Sound Lab. Full disclosure to note: I am and have been representing SL in Japan for the last 12 years but I am working to serve all SL lovers with a new website - there are many models widths and heights that have never been promoted before -please check and I welcome any questions, inquiries. soundlabelectrostats.com
This is an interesting video of delivery I just made last week - rare that you can see the inside:
Also a big heads up that if anyone is sitting on the fence, there will be significant price increases coming around the summer. I will be showing 2 models at California show in July if anyone is close and wants to join, and on the east coast USA there are demos available in Maryland at Dr. Vinyl.
This is an interesting video of delivery I just made last week - rare that you can see the inside:
Attachments
No disrespect meant to Chris or Dr. West. I have never exchanged any correspondence with Chris but I have exchanged a lot of emails with Dr. West. Dr. West is always courteous and eager to educate.
I think not enough respect is paid to the smaller Sound Labs. I keep seeing installations of "sky scrapers" and I think it may put off many buyers. Years ago at the California show in San Francisco, the largest SLs were displayed in the smallest room. The visual was overwhelming and the performance underwhelming.
I have Majestic 545X Sound Labs and could not be more pleased. I get a spacious sound stage but at the same time more intimacy and realism. The only fault I find with the speakers (aside from wishing for more bass) is they are so good they prompted me to replace everything else upstream with flagship or near flagship components. I guess that is good news and bad news. Or maybe just a friendly warning.
My message to anyone sitting on the fence is this. Small is beautiful. Do not be put off by thinking you need something huge. If your space is smaller or the aesthetics off-putting do not hesitate to consider the smaller models. Also consider your seating distance from the speakers. I have heard too many systems, including box speakers, where the width between the speakers or insufficient of toe-in made the seating position too close to get a proper center image.
Sound Labs come in different sizes for very good reasons. They fit different rooms and listening requirements (e.g. classical vs vocal solos). And now they come in 20" widths to make them fit even more rooms.
I think not enough respect is paid to the smaller Sound Labs. I keep seeing installations of "sky scrapers" and I think it may put off many buyers. Years ago at the California show in San Francisco, the largest SLs were displayed in the smallest room. The visual was overwhelming and the performance underwhelming.
I have Majestic 545X Sound Labs and could not be more pleased. I get a spacious sound stage but at the same time more intimacy and realism. The only fault I find with the speakers (aside from wishing for more bass) is they are so good they prompted me to replace everything else upstream with flagship or near flagship components. I guess that is good news and bad news. Or maybe just a friendly warning.
My message to anyone sitting on the fence is this. Small is beautiful. Do not be put off by thinking you need something huge. If your space is smaller or the aesthetics off-putting do not hesitate to consider the smaller models. Also consider your seating distance from the speakers. I have heard too many systems, including box speakers, where the width between the speakers or insufficient of toe-in made the seating position too close to get a proper center image.
Sound Labs come in different sizes for very good reasons. They fit different rooms and listening requirements (e.g. classical vs vocal solos). And now they come in 20" widths to make them fit even more rooms.
No disrespect taken at all! Many thanks for the comments. My goal actually was/is to increase awareness that Sound Lab makes smaller and narrower models - I have 545's (I call them G5-4C now) in one demo room and G7-3C (these are the most narrow) in another. I had the 3C (20") designed for me especially for my Japan market (small rooms!) The nice thing about taller but narrow versions is that you can also hear them when standing up. They also work a bit more for supporting the 'line source' effect and actually are amazing 'monitors'.No disrespect meant to Chris or Dr. West. I have never exchanged any correspondence with Chris but I have exchanged a lot of emails with Dr. West. Dr. West is always courteous and eager to educate.
I think not enough respect is paid to the smaller Sound Labs. I keep seeing installations of "sky scrapers" and I think it may put off many buyers. Years ago at the California show in San Francisco, the largest SLs were displayed in the smallest room. The visual was overwhelming and the performance underwhelming.
I have Majestic 545X Sound Labs and could not be more pleased. I get a spacious sound stage but at the same time more intimacy and realism. The only fault I find with the speakers (aside from wishing for more bass) is they are so good they prompted me to replace everything else upstream with flagship or near flagship components. I guess that is good news and bad news. Or maybe just a friendly warning.
My message to anyone sitting on the fence is this. Small is beautiful. Do not be put off by thinking you need something huge. If your space is smaller or the aesthetics off-putting do not hesitate to consider the smaller models. Also consider your seating distance from the speakers. I have heard too many systems, including box speakers, where the width between the speakers or insufficient of toe-in made the seating position too close to get a proper center image.
Sound Labs come in different sizes for very good reasons. They fit different rooms and listening requirements (e.g. classical vs vocal solos). And now they come in 20" widths to make them fit even more rooms.
Just in case it helps, here's a link to hear the smaller speakers - just a simple DJI accessory mike but it gives an idea .. .several other sound samples on my youtube and more to go up soon of the narrow speakers.
That is very impressive and clear drum sound. What is the rest of the system like amplifier, pre etc. What is the size of the room? Probably the best bass I have EVER heard from any speaker was a 845 speaker at T.H.E. show. Such speed and detail which left regular speakers sound slow , fuzzy and out of focus. I had electrostatics most of my life, but always had some kind of sub added, so I never actually heard an electrostatic bottom.
I sit very close to both of my SL ELS systems. The 6 foot (45 degree) and the 7 foot (90 degree) models. The sitting distance is equal to the speaker spacing and I get a "perfect" center (phantom) image with true stereo recordings and with mixed pan-potted recordings. Very small amount of tow-in.
I would 2nd Will's comment above. Speakers when properly positioned should and do disappear. Same speaker and sitting positions equally distant as Will says. Toeing in a bit more when limitations force the speakers very close to the back wall. (little changes will make big differences, don't be afraid to try) Cheers, Chris
I've found being close to the speakers provides the optimal proportion of direct sound from the speakers in my room(s) and minimizes the perceived amount of reflective sounds, so I am hearing the pure speakers more than my walls, ceiling, and floor. Close monitoring with Bass Focus version panels is a sonic virtue
Believe it or not I have a pair of S.A.L.L.I.E. and soon I'll have a second pair. I've used SL ELS since 1998 and this type of setup has been my preference since very early on, listening to all types of music. My HF is usually @ 12:00 to 12:30, off the 8 ohm output tap. Never use the LF or MF adjustments.
Believe it or not I have a pair of S.A.L.L.I.E. and soon I'll have a second pair. I've used SL ELS since 1998 and this type of setup has been my preference since very early on, listening to all types of music. My HF is usually @ 12:00 to 12:30, off the 8 ohm output tap. Never use the LF or MF adjustments.
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How close are you talking?
How do you sit close to large planar dipoles and not lose a clearly defined center image from a solo vocalist?
Distance between center of each speaker is an equal distance to the ears...equilateral triangle.
Minimum would be six or seven feet.
Depending on the space available and the room acoustics of course... sky is the limit.
Everything is a compromise and my goal is to hear what is available from the source material.
Horizontal and vertical image size is realistic with SL ELS even at seven feet.
Minimum would be six or seven feet.
Depending on the space available and the room acoustics of course... sky is the limit.
Everything is a compromise and my goal is to hear what is available from the source material.
Horizontal and vertical image size is realistic with SL ELS even at seven feet.
A very important point about Sound Lab ELS if you've not lived with them:
Unlike multiple driver cone speakers with crossovers and multiple driver planar speakers with crossovers, Sound Lab speakers are full range and have no crossover.
With the multiple driver systems it is necessary to get far enough back from the speakers to get a blend of the multiple speakers producing the sound. I won't go into the shortcomings of arrival time relative to frequency (phase) of this type of speaker.
This is not the case with Sound Lab ELS.
And when I say the arrival time problem applies to "planar" speakers too, here is an example:
I recently auditioned a pair of well known planar speakers in my home. Having not heard/owned this brand for a few decades I decided to try a pair. I really wanted to like them. The problem for me was the driver blend problem. Translation: blurr, lack of precise focus, move an inch here, a foot back and it becomes perpetual exercise in futility and frustration. It can never be solved, and distance is not the solution. You'll never have an even semi-accurate portrayal of the original soundfield from the compromises of the design.
All speakers are a compromise...choose what you value. For me it is the attempt to recreate a soundfield within the limitations of the two channel medium. My reference "soundfield" are from recordings that I've made and witnessed aurally.
Unlike multiple driver cone speakers with crossovers and multiple driver planar speakers with crossovers, Sound Lab speakers are full range and have no crossover.
With the multiple driver systems it is necessary to get far enough back from the speakers to get a blend of the multiple speakers producing the sound. I won't go into the shortcomings of arrival time relative to frequency (phase) of this type of speaker.
This is not the case with Sound Lab ELS.
And when I say the arrival time problem applies to "planar" speakers too, here is an example:
I recently auditioned a pair of well known planar speakers in my home. Having not heard/owned this brand for a few decades I decided to try a pair. I really wanted to like them. The problem for me was the driver blend problem. Translation: blurr, lack of precise focus, move an inch here, a foot back and it becomes perpetual exercise in futility and frustration. It can never be solved, and distance is not the solution. You'll never have an even semi-accurate portrayal of the original soundfield from the compromises of the design.
All speakers are a compromise...choose what you value. For me it is the attempt to recreate a soundfield within the limitations of the two channel medium. My reference "soundfield" are from recordings that I've made and witnessed aurally.
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