Linn LP 12... anyone else still like this design?

SONDEKNZ said:

Similarly, I'm a big fan of our beloved LINN LP12 - but our LP12 never sounded better than after the springs were completely removed and replaced with silicone mushrooms.

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But there is a contradiction in converting spring loaded LP12 to a silicone mushroom suspended turntable. The whole advertisement of LP12 has been and is based on precisely adjusted springs. They advocated superiority and simplicity of those springs for the last 50 years since the introduction of LP12.

IMHO a springless LP12 is an iPhone running android or a Tesla with an internal combustion engine, coffee without caffeine. If LP12 sounds better with silicone mushrooms doesn’t it mean we are fooled by Linn for the last 50 years? Doesn’t the whole design approach of LP12 become pointless when you remove springs?

@mtemur

Using your own standards, let me ask these questions...

Now that the top LINN LP12 offering uses a DC motor - NOT an AC motor - were we fooled by LINN for 40-years?

Now that the top LINN LP12 offering uses a sub-chassis bonded to the armboard - not three lossy little PK screws - were we fooled by LINN for 30-years?

No. I don't think so. It's called progress.

I'll remind you also, that each of these progressive steps - now considered normal - were introduced NOT by LINN, but by third-party providers, all eager to extract more from the humble LP12 design.

IMHO, the unique beauty of the LP12 emanates from the combination of the quality LINN bearing, sub-platter, and outer-platter - isolated by suspension and driven by a belt.

With the springless LP12, this is still the case. The only difference is that the suspension is less extreme - and is provided by (silent) silicone mushrooms, instead of a chorus of excited springs all singing in harmony.

If it sounds better - and it does - what else matters?

As an aside, with the silicone mushrooms in place, our LP12 still plays without interruption, even while our robot vacuum-cleaner nudges the hi-fi rack and our 5-year-old tears around the listening room. So, the suspended LP12 isolation still works perfectly - but sounds better than ever!

If you are still in doubt - as you may not have not heard the massive sonic improvements wrought by the silicone mushrooms - I suggest you make contact with Lennart at LinnArts (Sweden).

LinnArts sells all LINN tricks and treasures - including most third-party offerings. I purchased my silicone mushrooms from Lennart.

Lennart also considers the AUDIOSILENTE SILICONE MUSHROOMS provide the highest level of LP12 configuration. He is not alone.

In terms of day-to-day handling, I also must confess that in no way do me and my costly cartridges miss that infernal bouncy platter!

darkmatter said:

The LP12 is a turntable I have used in one form or another since I was 15.
I flirted with other TTs during the late 1980s for a few years, but promptly returned to LP12 ownership.
I currently run two LP12s in my systems.
Now have a Karousel bearing and a Zeta arm to fit to the main deck soon.
Now off researching suitable carts for the Zeta arm which has an effective mass of 16 grams so a high medium to high mass arm.
Simon

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Well, I ended up going well over budget with the upgrades. My excellent local dealer tempted me and I went for it!!

The main deck is now a near Klimax spec LP12/Radikal 2/Karousel/Keel/Ekos SE/1 feeding my SuperLine /SuperCap DR.

With the spares I had left over from the upgrade, I ended up building from scratch an LP12 with an Armageddon PS, a black lined bearing hybrid with a Karousel style nut, Stack Audio subchassis and armboard with the Zeta arm.

The third deck is an 84 LP12 with a Valhalla / whie lined bearing and a Jelco SA750D arm.

So I have three LP12s with three levels of rigidity and sound!!

darkmatter said:

Well, I ended up going well over budget with the upgrades. My excellent local dealer tempted me and I went for it!!

The main deck is now a near Klimax spec LP12/Radikal 2/Karousel/Keel/Ekos SE/1 feeding my SuperLine /SuperCap DR.

With the spares I had left over from the upgrade, I ended up building from scratch an LP12 with an Armageddon PS, a black lined bearing hybrid with a Karousel style nut, Stack Audio subchassis and armboard with the Zeta arm.

The third deck is an 84 LP12 with a Valhalla / whie lined bearing and a Jelco SA750D arm.

So I have three LP12s with three levels of rigidity and sound!!

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Congrats on the upgrade(s)!!

I would have thought you would be using an ARO on your top deck.

One of the fun things about LP12s is the open architecture, allowing countless aftermarket sources to offer parts. Many hear the aftermarket parts as upgrades. Others swear that OEM parts are best.

I have expressed the view (in other threads) that, until you have Tom O’Keefe or Peter Swain do your setup, you really don’t know what the best OEM can do. I love my LP12s, and am good at setup myself, but I bow to the masters.

Used an LP12 from 1982 (Valhalla, Basik arm and A&R cartridge) to 2019 (Radikal 1, Cirkus, Keel, Ekos SE, Kandid, Urika I) and all points in between.

After five years without a turntable, I just jumped back in with an almost identical second hand LP12 with Urika II courtesy of Nigel Moore at Peter Tyson. In the meantime, I’d upgraded my DSM to a KDSM/3 Hub.

The combination of Urika II and KDSM/3 is a huge upgrade over my previous vinyl setup. Vinyl records are now a much more enjoyable listen than streaming of digital files.



Hopefully, I can make it even better with Karousel bearing and Radikal 2 upgrade very soon - also, change the colour of the plinth.

darkmatter said:

Well, I ended up going well over budget with the upgrades. My excellent local dealer tempted me and I went for it!!

The main deck is now a near Klimax spec LP12/Radikal 2/Karousel/Keel/Ekos SE/1 feeding my SuperLine /SuperCap DR.

With the spares I had left over from the upgrade, I ended up building from scratch an LP12 with an Armageddon PS, a black lined bearing hybrid with a Karousel style nut, Stack Audio subchassis and armboard with the Zeta arm.

The third deck is an 84 LP12 with a Valhalla / whie lined bearing and a Jelco SA750D arm.

So I have three LP12s with three levels of rigidity and sound!!

Click to expand...

Very cool!

Perhaps time to try the silicone mushrooms and see if you prefer the sound?

What do you think?

dcathro said:

Congrats on the upgrade(s)!!

I would have thought you would be using an ARO on your top deck.

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I did consider it but finding a good one with an ARO Keel proved problematic. I have heard the combo and the ARO really needs the Keel to sing at its best, ultimately I preferred the balance the EKOS SE/1 offered me and preferred the bass and my hand queuing isn't the best!!, but the midrange of the ARO is so, so seductive. Ultimately, it was a close decision.

darkmatter said:

I did consider it but finding a good one with an ARO Keel proved problematic. I have heard the combo and the ARO really needs the Keel to sing at its best, ultimately I preferred the balance the EKOS SE/1 offered me and preferred the bass and my hand queuing isn't the best!!, but the midrange of the ARO is so, so seductive. Ultimately, it was a close decision.

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Get in touch with my dear friend Peter Swain at Cymbiosis. He will be able to sort you out

buzzlulu said:

Get in touch with my dear friend Peter Swain at Cymbiosis. He will be able to sort you out

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I did speak to Peter, and he didn't have anything available at the time before and just after I upgraded, and only recently had an Aro Keel for sale

I bought my first LP12 in 1983. I sold it in 2006.
Bought a new LP12 in 2010.
I currently have EKOS SE tonearm, Keel, Radikal D, and Karousel bearing for upgrades.
I'm on my second Lyra Kleos MC pickup.

I don't like Linn's Urika phono stage so I use a EAR YOSHINO 324 solid state phono stage.

I'm not likely going to do any more upgrades on my table other than a new phono pickup about every 10 years or so.

Linn's new Radikal and Urika phono stage digitizes the analog signal and that's not a road that I wish to travel down...

Also using a LP12 (Akkurate level) as back up deck to my Amazon Referenz and StSt Motus DQ. Runs flawlessly and is very reliable. Mainly used for playing Maxi singles

I got my LP12 going again yesterday after several months of doing without my vinyl. This one has a plinth of 600+ year old oak harvested from Woburn Abbey. It has Karousel, Ekos SE, Lyra Etna Lambda, Radikal, Keel, Tramp2 … phono preamp is ARC Phono 3SE. Next project is to get the Clearaudio Master Reference (to the right) back into service. I love the LP12. This one started out as a 1978 model and I’ve upgraded it with the help of Peter Swain and Tom O’Keefe over many years. It still has the 1978 serial number (recorded at Headquarters), but there are no remaining parts from the 1978 incarnation.

Edit: I’m glad I took this picture because it reminded me that I’d shimmed the LP12 instead of leveling the rack. So … I leveled the rack this morning and the coasters of various thicknesses under the LP12’s feet are now gone.

Another Johnson said:

View attachment 137199
I got my LP12 going again yesterday after several months of doing without my vinyl. This one has a plinth of 600+ year old oak harvested from Woburn Abbey.

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Lovely looking plinth!!!!

I had always understood the use of English oak was illegal. When I built an oak desk in the 90's in London, I had to use imported American Oak.

Another Johnson said:

It still has the 1978 serial number (recorded at Headquarters), but there are no remaining parts from the 1978 incarnation.

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That's just like me , apparently every molecule has been changed every seven years.

dcathro said:

I had always understood the use of English oak was illegal. When I built an oak desk in the 90's in London, I had to use imported American Oak.

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It is English Brown Oak. The tree was damaged and Foresters made the decision to harvest it. This was at least 10 years ago.

The wood was auctioned and Chris Harban of Woodsong Plinths obtained a couple of boards to make two plinths. There was some scrap off these two boards for testing finishes.

In 2017 the wood was dry to use. I picked the one (there was enough wood for two) that I thought had the best potential. Cymbiosis was given credit as the selling dealer and took the other one for resale.

Chris was interested in ammonia fuming (after Gustav Stickley). We have a fair amount of Stickley oak furniture, and at one time I used iron in spent acid stains for building period correct muzzle loader stocks, so I agreed to the experimental fumed finish.

Chris built a fuming chamber, and used the scraps for experiments. I am very pleased with this rare and unusual specimen. 600+ year old English Brown Oak legally harvested from Woburn Abbey does not come along for plinth building everyday. It is prettier in person than in photos.

Edit fwiw: Stickley fumed American White Oak, so there was some risk in trying this on English Brown Oak. The first few experiments on scraps turned the scraps nearly black because the ammonia concentration in the first tests was too high. In my opinion, based on my experience with now abandoned staining strategies that try to chemically alter maple, I think the ammonia concentration was still on the high side when the plinth was treated. I was worried that the oak would age less well than it has. I think it is pretty stable at this point … and it really has a lively look about it that is not captured in photographs.

Another Johnson said:

Next project is to get the Clearaudio Master Reference (to the right) back into service.

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Success! I still want to mount the TT-2 linear tracking tonearm on the arm board to the left, but the Universal 12” is playing its heart out.



Too bad you can only listen to one at a time.

Still loving my late 70s model. Only update to this one has been the Karousel bearing.
Not having 45rpm is a pain (and I have the crappy spindle adaptor which I hate) but I refuse to buy a Lingo as I absolutely DO NOT want to lose the neon power switch!