A real brawl about Daniel Hertz M1 speakers at the Axpona show!
- Thread starter DaveyF
- Start date
It's a little unclear to me as to how many products in audio are re-badged
The case of the Lexicon unit was seemingly uncovered fairly quickly, but I suspect there have been other examples that might have escaped our attention.
One thing that strikes me is that we are coming to a conclusion that the M1 speaker isn't anything that is special. I. personally cannot really say that, as I have never heard it....I suppose that if someone can build a product that is superior to all others, whether that product be a speaker or amp or ? and if one is able to produce said product at a very modest price, then is there really anything that wrong in charging whatever you feel the market will bear.
The fact that ML has seemingly taken a simple box, made it with a fancy finish, added possibly cheap pro-audio drivers and a cheap x-over and now asks a high price, might be forgivable if this same product is now a world beater.
The question I would have for those who have heard this speaker is what is their impression of it? Would you pay $100K for it compared to what else you can get for the same or less money
OTOH, I would think that if ML's ground breaking product is able to be sold at a fraction of the price and he can make a fair mark-up (vs a killing), wouldn't he be better off by selling a much larger number at this lower price?
The case of the Lexicon unit was seemingly uncovered fairly quickly, but I suspect there have been other examples that might have escaped our attention.
One thing that strikes me is that we are coming to a conclusion that the M1 speaker isn't anything that is special. I. personally cannot really say that, as I have never heard it....I suppose that if someone can build a product that is superior to all others, whether that product be a speaker or amp or ? and if one is able to produce said product at a very modest price, then is there really anything that wrong in charging whatever you feel the market will bear
. The fact that ML has seemingly taken a simple box, made it with a fancy finish, added possibly cheap pro-audio drivers and a cheap x-over and now asks a high price, might be forgivable if this same product is now a world beater.
The question I would have for those who have heard this speaker is what is their impression of it? Would you pay $100K for it compared to what else you can get for the same or less money
OTOH, I would think that if ML's ground breaking product is able to be sold at a fraction of the price and he can make a fair mark-up (vs a killing), wouldn't he be better off by selling a much larger number at this lower price?
I listened to the speakers at Axpona and they didn't leave a great impression on me. I also thought they looked a little gaudy. The most musical sounds I heard at Axpona came from the MBL 101E MK2, the Adam Tensor and the Scaena.
And I would add the YG Acoustics. The issue for me was that both the Scaena and YG were in huge rooms. What do they sound like in a more traditional sized listening room?
The ML speaker was also in a good sized room but it didn't help!!
I listened to these speakers twice at AXPONA. I found them to be a little bright both times. The MBL speakers were far more impressive.
Interesting comments by Charles Hansen. I had no idea that Yoav Geva and Alon Wolf were trust fund babies. Any one know anything about that?
And his claim that Magico Q5 is under-priced is interesting as well. Personally, I always thought that Ayre was one of the better values in high end audio - because they under-priced their gear.
Coming back to the Daniel Hertz, Levinson is not only leveraging his own brand name, but is appealing to the audiophile who values highly the science behind the audiophile sound with his pedigree and name of the speaker. Nothing new here. Bryston, Sanders, Boulder, etc., go for the same type of audiophile cusomer. Except this one is for the "super rich" in that category. (Hey, but his amps to drive the speakers are "relatively cheap!)
But ultimately we don't know how many audiophiles will be an "easy mark", if the comments and claims in the thread are true. People go to show, they post their comments, they share their experiences. I am not convinced that even the "rich" will be quick to pull out their checkbooks without just a little bit of due dilligence. And will the dealer/ ditribution network fall in line? According to the Stereophile site, only a couple of thousand of people may have heard this speaker at Axpona, so there will be more exposure and scrutiny...
But ultimately we don't know how many audiophiles will be an "easy mark", if the comments and claims in the thread are true. People go to show, they post their comments, they share their experiences. I am not convinced that even the "rich" will be quick to pull out their checkbooks without just a little bit of due dilligence. And will the dealer/ ditribution network fall in line? According to the Stereophile site, only a couple of thousand of people may have heard this speaker at Axpona, so there will be more exposure and scrutiny...
Caesar
What specific "Science" is he claiming .. What research? What papers? What peers reviewed works? Not mcuh I could see in his web site ... Compare this to the speakers from Harman , Paradigm , PSB, Gedlee, etc
Oh he also has a watch ... Likely the price is commensurate with that of the speakers ...
What kind of perfromance will he claim for the watch? if you had any doubt that high end audio is entirely a luxury market
Caesar
What specific "Science" is he claiming .. What research? What papers? What peers reviewed works? Not mcuh I could see in his web site ... Compare this to the speakers from Harman , Paradigm , PSB, Gedlee, etc
Oh he also has a watch ... Likely the price is commensurate with that of the speakers ...
What kind of perfromance will he claim for the watch? if you had any doubt that high end audio is entirely a luxury market
Frantz, you are correct. But he is appealing to science by naming the speakers as he did. The white papers will, come. Don't worry.
This just goes to show how we all hear differently. The YG Acoustics sent me running out of the room. Again. I have now listened to them on four different occasions, with a variety of material, wanting to like them and I can't for the life of me understand why people like them. But, to each his own.
At my audio meeting today, a guest manufacturer was telling the group how they are sourcing everything for their particular speaker from China. While I admired his honesty as to the background and reasoning as to why the speaker is Chinese made, I couldn't help but wonder how many other manufacturer's of high-end gear are using all Chinese manufacturing and not disclosing this to their customer base.
It seems that ML has done this in the past with no qualms. Today, I noticed a good size ad for the Daniel Hertz M1 speakers on A'gon, with the rep looking for dealers in LA and elsewhere. Seems like the marketing hype is ratcheting up
It seems that ML has done this in the past with no qualms. Today, I noticed a good size ad for the Daniel Hertz M1 speakers on A'gon, with the rep looking for dealers in LA and elsewhere. Seems like the marketing hype is ratcheting up
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Today, I noticed a good size ad for the Daniel Hertz M1 speakers on A'gon, with the rep looking for dealers in LA and elsewhere. Seems like the marketing hype is ratcheting up
Some quantity of these speakers will be sold because it’s the first new ML product to hit the market in some time. Dealers will want to cash in on this before ML once again fails (he always does, so it’s just a matter of time). One sale equals $50K in the dealer’s pocket. So, if you’re a dealer that wants a piece of this action and strike while the iron is hot, now’s the time. The window of opportunity to separate people from large piles of cash is small when you are dealing with ML.
I have listened to the YG at several shows. They can easily sound very edgy when not set up right. I was not impressed at AXPONA. Very resolving but not very musical in my opinion.
Looks like the ad is listed by the guy to peddles verrastar cables. I guess he has peddled enough of the cables to get into the high end speaker business. I am surprised he is using the same name!!!! The guy buying a Ferrari would probably not want to know the dealer has a Hyundai or a Yugo dealership.
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fb.pl?user=Verastarr
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1309369706&/Daniel-Hertz-M1-By-Mr.Mark-Lev
