Active bass

[farbak]

I am not a fan of active bass. You always need another ampifier to complete it. Makes it not better. Why not making the speaker full active. Much better results.

 

[Leif S]

I am not a fan of active bass. You always need another ampifier to complete it. Makes it not better. Why not making the speaker full active. Much better results.

None of our speakers are active.

 

[farbak]

Hi Leif,
You don t react to what i am saying.

 

[farbak]

Ultra 55, Ultra 9, Ultra 11 !

 

[Leif S]

All the speakers you just mentioned are all passive. No processing.

 

[farbak]

I am very surprised. I have no difficulty with reading. Everytime poweramps are mentioned !

 

[farbak]

Each channel of the ULTRA 11 loudspeaker system is physically time-aligned and consists of two 1,000-watt powered 15" sealed subwoofers
Each channel of the ULTRA 9 loudspeaker system is physically time-aligned and consists of a 1,000-watt powered 15" sealed subwoofer
Each channel of the ULTRA 55 loudspeaker system is physically time-aligned and consists of a 525-watt booster amp driving twin 9" reinforced ceramic mid-bass drivers

 

[Mike Lavigne]

not to butt in here, but you guys need to define terms.

to me a speaker with integrated powered bass, keeping things analog, with typically being room adjustable in some way, can be considered 'active' bass. a separate amplifier would power the passive upper frequency portion of the speaker.

but also 'active' bass could be where there is DSP (digital signal processing) involved using software to solve room problems by changing the input signal. normally this would require digitizing the input signal.

both situations are referred to as active bass but are fundamentally different.

 

[Leif S]

I am very surprised. I have no difficulty with reading. Everytime poweramps are mentioned !

The power amp on the ULTRA 55 is a booster amp. It allows you to control bass volume +/- 6db from the original signal. It makes the speaker very versatile for room placement. The amp on the ULTRA 9 is for the 15" subwoofer on the back of the speaker.

 

[Leif S]

not to butt in here, but you guys need to define terms.

to me a speaker with integrated powered bass, keeping things analog, with typically being room adjustable in some way, can be considered 'active' bass. a separate amplifier would power the passive upper frequency portion of the speaker.

but also 'active' bass could be where there is DSP (digital signal processing) involved using software to solve room problems by changing the input signal. normally this would require digitizing the input signal.

both situations are referred to as active bass but are fundamentally different.

Your spot in Mike

 

[DonH50]

Not quite seeing the reason for the OP; just to attack VSA? To suggest they make an active speaker line? I'm also with Mike; there are a range of speakers from fully passive to fully active, with and without crossovers (passive or active) and additional signal processing (up to and including DSP response correction programs). There is always a power amp someplace in the chain, expensive or not, and if you integrate it into the speaker you still have to pay for it. TANSTAAFL.

 

[farbak]

For me a speaker is active when it has a poweramp for bass. Very simple. Ofcourse you can make special versiond with that but the principle stays the same. Why do you not react to my suggestion to use amps for the whole speaker ? No problems with different amps.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

there is a very good reason for not having completely active speakers. they don't sell. period.

buyers want to choose their amplifiers, and integrating an amplifier into a speaker full range means that the customer is stuck with that amplifier. the marketplace has spoken that that works only at the bottom price level, not at audiophile performance price levels.

so no upper level speaker manufacturer will build a completely active speaker. too much risk.

it's left for the DIY (do it yourself) people to do full active.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

there is a very good reason for not having completely active speakers. they don't sell. period.

buyers want to choose their amplifiers, and integrating an amplifier into a speaker full range means that the customer is stuck with that amplifier. the marketplace has spoken that that works only at the bottom price level, not at audiophile performance price levels.

so no upper level speaker manufacturer will build a completely active speaker. too much risk.

it's left for the DIY (do it yourself) people to do full active.

I was going to write the same thing.

I think Goldmund do some fully active stuff but that is all that comes to mind for the big brand domestic “high end” stuff afaik. Maybe Linn do something.

 

[Rhapsody]

I was going to write the same thing.

I think Goldmund do some fully active stuff but that is all that comes to mind for the big brand domestic “high end” stuff afaik. Maybe Linn do something.

I do not represent Goldmund any longer in the US, but Goldmund has been selling active speakers for almost 10 years now. I sold four pairs of $600K Goldmund Apologues in the last 3 or 4 years as well as maybe 10 other pairs of $30K-$135K complete active speakers.

I actually have two pair of completely active Goldmund Satya that are current models and retail for $135K for sale right now.

 

[Steve Williams]

I do not represent Goldmund any longer in the US, but Goldmund has been selling active speakers for almost 10 years now. I sold four pairs of $600K Goldmund Apologues in the last 3 or 4 years as well as maybe 10 other pairs of $30K-$135K complete active speakers.

I actually have two pair of completely active Goldmund Satya that are current models and retail for $135K for sale right now.

Perhaps Farbak might be interested in hearing these Bob

 

[Rhapsody]

Perhaps Farbak might be interested in hearing these Bob

They sound REALLY great, but you don't get to change dacs/amps etc.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

They sound REALLY great, but you don't get to change dacs/amps etc.

and the signal path is digitized. so forget vinyl and tape.

which fits some but not all. and considering the price point.....limiting future system evolution. these are end game systems for second and third homes. not for the typical working man audiophile.

 

[marmota]

Just to add to the discussion...active speakers don't specifically need to have integrated amps or DSP, is possible to design a speaker with an external, analog active crossover and leave the user with the amp choice (of course, if it is a 3 way, that's 3x amps).

The purest approach would be a speaker similar to the Sonus Faber Stradivari or ATC EL150, with a baffle wide enough to push BSC to room gain region (below 180-150hz aprox, this would require a 70-80cm width baffle, tilted back and, probably, positioning the speakers on the long wall of the room to get away without the +6db of Baffle Step Compensation) and using drivers with linear responses and equal sensitivity to avoid padding and EQ. In this configuration a true analog, active crossover such as Pass Labs XVR1/First Watt B4 can be used and of course, the user could choose the amps he/she wants (picture 3x Dartzeel or Vitus amps plus matching preamp there =D).

OTOH, if a magician starts building state of the art speaker drivers far ahead of what one can buy in 2019 at Madisound, another interesting approach arises, as drivers can be build with an intented acoustical roll off, ie: 18db natural roll off (this is what Raal does with their ribbon tweeters). This way, for a passive speaker, you can use just 1 cap and have a 1st order electrical but 4th order acoustical crossover filter. Assuming the speaker is like I described above (3 way, wide baffle to avoid BSC, tilted back for time alignment, drivers with equal sensitivity and linear FR + natural roll off on their intended pass bands), this theorical exercise would have just 4 crossover parts per speaker if made reality. This could be also done with the active filter (1st order electrical, 4th acoustical).

I believe that implementation is everything btw, and passive speakers have much less to go wrong than active ones, IMO the situation with active speakers and audiophiles it's a mix between market demands, misinformation, prejuices and the crude reality of having to buy your favorite amp x3+preamp, not having the option to use integrated amplifiers...yet on the other side of the coin the user not accepting the manufacturer supplied amps (which is very understandable in most cases, most active speakers use pretty sub par parts inside)...etc.

 

[farbak]

Goldmund is a good example of a top active speaker.