If you get the Wavelet II, best to discuss with Legacy if given specs for you speakers (and possibly other info), if there are custom target functions for the ideal performance of the speaker in room that they would need to create algos for. That and them setting up the output map for the speaker in question seem to me to be best moves. As you may recall, I had an iV4 ULTRA amp for 2+ years and can tell you for their comparatively reasonable price tag they really do perform well beyond their price class and might well surprise you.
What is output impedance from your preamp? I think no need for isolation transformer the cold signal path is bridged to ground.
The tweeter is crossed at 2 khz and 10" cone is lower then 200 hz
Exact values will only bring measurement, disconnect the speaker cable from the woofer and then only measure coax frequency response.
Normally the open baffle or ripol woofers are limited to 150hz with a blocking circuit
Can you make a photo from backside of coax, i think its a modified bms coax driver
Tube pre 6922 i think a load under 20kohm from two power amps ist difficult, maybe with short rca cables. Maybe a nelson pass analog active xover with short cables is a better solution . Then have you have low ohm output j-fet buffer to drive better diffrent two amps.
Designed and manufactured for PureAudioProject by PassLabs/FirstWatt, in CA, USA Optional: Distribution Boards for internal wiring (speakers input to drivers) Shipped world wide with DHL or Fedex Express
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Input- fullrange output for coax+ subwoofer filter out put for 15"woofer
I have seen picture from the coax its a beyma 10cx model goes down fs 50hz
Possibly to keep cost down versus the generally more costly Class A or Class AB alternatives. Also, if building internally, there may be space and weight considerations (and cost) that make Class D a better option.
I haven't heard an active commercial offering that I would want to own. I someone comes up with one that is high sensitivity and is driven by in-built SET or similar amps and a DAC that doesn't use an ESS sabre chip...then I might be interested. I think the closest to my own ideal would be the Pass Rushmore speaker.
It doesn't have to have a built in amp. It more needs the drivers wired out with a crossover pre dialed in. Choose your amps. As long as all 3 are the same. Or you stack 2 x stereo amps vertically.
Honestly, there is nothing wrong with what I currently have. I had some Art Pepper and Dave Brubeck on vinyl last night. Totally lost in the music. My new amps are just amazing on many levels. I don’t have the bass weight of the Dartzeel. But the detail and natural is way beyond what I ever heard from the Dart or any other amp in my system. Even though I miss some of that weight, I listened to a CH/Alexx and prefer mine on most levels. When I listen to that systems bass, its not accurate. Its big and robust and weighty. But it is totally different in a way I don't appreciate. Even the owner of the system said he never played classical on his stereo because it was so bad. He played a lot of new age and chick/guitar stuff. Singer/songwriter music.
I am not saying my setup is perfect. I don't believe you could throw any single amp at it and better what I have. I don't care the price. It would change with more power. But would not improve. I do believe multiple amps of the same make with a well dialed crossover might step up the game. Might.
For now, I have a couple air core chokes on order. I can mess with my crossover a little. I have to tear the system down in a month. It wont play for over a year once I move. I have time to research.
FWIW PAP prefers the passive over the Pass crossover. They have not successfully biamped yet. You never see that at a show and I don't hear much talk about it on forums. I hear people throw a 250 watt or greater Pass Lab amp at them. I have had a full Thrax monoblock system with Thrax preamp running these speakers. Its not better than what I have now. More bass. Lower distortion. But not better.
Honestly, there is nothing wrong with what I currently have. I had some Art Pepper and Dave Brubeck on vinyl last night. Totally lost in the music. My new amps are just amazing on many levels. I don’t have the bass weight of the Dartzeel. But the detail and natural is way beyond what I ever heard from the Dart or any other amp in my system. Even though I miss some of that weight, I listened to a CH/Alexx and prefer mine on most levels. When I listen to that systems bass, its not accurate. Its big and robust and weighty. But it is totally different in a way I don't appreciate. Even the owner of the system said he never played classical on his stereo because it was so bad. He played a lot of new age and chick/guitar stuff. Singer/songwriter music.
I am not saying my setup is perfect. I don't believe you could throw any single amp at it and better what I have. I don't care the price. It would change with more power. But would not improve. I do believe multiple amps of the same make with a well dialed crossover might step up the game. Might.
For now, I have a couple air core chokes on order. I can mess with my crossover a little. I have to tear the system down in a month. It wont play for over a year once I move. I have time to research.
FWIW PAP prefers the passive over the Pass crossover. They have not successfully biamped yet. You never see that at a show and I don't hear much talk about it on forums. I hear people throw a 250 watt or greater Pass Lab amp at them. I have had a full Thrax monoblock system with Thrax preamp running these speakers. Its not better than what I have now. More bass. Lower distortion. But not better.
Although not the prevailing strategy for biamping bass...I only get good integration when you use at least the same type of amp (SET, PP tube etc.) on all drivers or even the same amps on all drivers.
Although not the prevailing strategy for biamping bass...I only get good integration when you use at least the same type of amp (SET, PP tube etc.) on all drivers or even the same amps on all drivers.
I have a couple air core chokes on order. I can mess with my crossover a little. I have to tear the system down in a month. It wont play for over a year once I move. I have time to research.
I messed around with crossover component changes quite a lot. Changing from iron core to air core was easily the biggest bump. I found ribbon type inductors were awful, bad PRaT. Solen Hepta-Litz are awesome. I used 14ga in the tweeter circuit. I special ordered 10ga for the woofer crossover. Big difference, even vs. 12ga air core.
Sand cast and green Lynk resistors are bad. Mills are very good. Caddock sounded best, but awkward to use.
I tried a number of capacitors; Solen PPE, Hovland, Jensen Oil, Multi-cap. The only one for me is Auricap, very fast and neutral sounding.
Some people recommend bypass caps (parallel a cap with a smaller cap). If you use parallel caps in series with the tweeter, you end up with sibilance.
FWIW PAP prefers the passive over the Pass crossover. They have not successfully biamped yet. You never see that at a show and I don't hear much talk about it on forums. I hear people throw a 250 watt or greater Pass Lab amp at them.
Some people scoff at passive vertical biamping, but IME it can be very effective because it doubles the available current, and current clipping is a bigger problem than voltage clipping in a home audio system.
For now, I have a couple air core chokes on order. I can mess with my crossover a little. I have to tear the system down in a month. It wont play for over a year once I move. I have time to research.
Watch out for the DCR values. You can read the current values off the inductors already installed. Especially the cored ones. Air cores will typically be higher unless you bump up the gage.
If you like balanced sound, bass control, precision and impulse speed, then buy something like this. It will be difficult to find something better, no matter what the price tag says. A nice feature is that you can tap the signal from XLR or RCA output socket and pass it on to another power amplifier.good luck to find the best solution
I messed around with crossover component changes quite a lot. Changing from iron core to air core was easily the biggest bump. I found ribbon type inductors were awful, bad PRaT. Solen Hepta-Litz are awesome. I used 14ga in the tweeter circuit. I special ordered 10ga for the woofer crossover. Big difference, even vs. 12ga air core.
Sand cast and green Lynk resistors are bad. Mills are very good. Caddock sounded best, but awkward to use.
I tried a number of capacitors; Solen PPE, Hovland, Jensen Oil, Multi-cap. The only one for me is Auricap, very fast and neutral sounding.
Some people recommend bypass caps (parallel a cap with a smaller cap). If you use parallel caps in series with the tweeter, you end up with sibilance.
Some people scoff at passive vertical biamping, but IME it can be very effective because it doubles the available current, and current clipping is a bigger problem than voltage clipping in a home audio system.
Ribbon foil type inductors measure completely different from standard wire coils , you cant go value for value it will kill the jump as it rolls the driver off differently ..!
BTW , Lynk used to be good , when they did the black wire wound ones not available anymore ..
I messed around with crossover component changes quite a lot. Changing from iron core to air core was easily the biggest bump. I found ribbon type inductors were awful, bad PRaT. Solen Hepta-Litz are awesome. I used 14ga in the tweeter circuit. I special ordered 10ga for the woofer crossover. Big difference, even vs. 12ga air core.
I was wondering about the concept of altering a signal vs altering the output from a amp. I figured the signal is very fragile and easy to degrade. It seems that is the case.
I understand how difficult it is to make a crossover. On the surface that is. I was wondering in a general way if a company with resources and tallent like Magico wouldn't be able to make a higher performance product with direct coupled amps. Or are the trade off of crossover to signal manipulation a wash.
Customers do loose the option to shape sound with an amp. Or do they. A good amp is not supposed to have a voice.
And yes, I do have an itch to try. Mabe I can get a few Allo Volt Plus D and a Danville crossover.
Rex, Just seeing what is it about the sound of your speakers that you are wanting to change or refine or is this more about taking the trio into a being quite a different speaker by swapping over to an active speaker setup?
I’ve lived for over 5 years with pureaudioprojects (first the trios with horns and now for the last few years the quintets) tho I’ve not tried the coax… and for 10 years before then with ribbon planar panel setups in Magnepan for a short while with the 3.7 before the 20.7s… I do get the virtues and the issues involved in living with planars and OB and also in dealing with the constraints (for me a lot about getting bass extension without losing the essential lithe quality of OB and planar bass). That challenge of teasing them out at their extremes without losing their virtues in terms of coherence, wholeness and immediacy, especially with 2 way OB panels with SET. Also the mid woofers do seem to be not at their best with higher damping amps at any rate. It is a bit of a design riddle and a loop.
From everything you’ve said about how good it is I would also not be changing your amp out… especially if your mid woofers are crossing out as high as 1200hz… maybe instead would adding something like powered slot loaded OB subs down below 80hz be worth considering, especially with you moving into your new larger space? Either way sounds a shade more viable than adding $44k more of the Blade amps as exciting (and enjoyably expensive) as that sounds.
OR go with a speaker that is essentially filterless yo begin with.
some examples:
Cube Audio or something with an AER or Voxativ etc. Single driver
Horning Eufrodite or Agalame, which only has a single cap on the tweeter and filterless otherwise….need very little power
Grandinote Mach 8XL or Mach 9. Also only a cap on the tweeter and otherwise filterless.
Reference 3A. Only a cap on the tweeter but not as sensitive as Horning or Grandinote
Rex, Just seeing what is it about the sound of your speakers that you are wanting to change or refine or is this more about taking the trio into a being quite a different speaker by swapping over to an active speaker setup?
I’ve lived for over 5 years with pureaudioprojects (first the trios with horns and now for the last few years the quintets) tho I’ve not tried the coax… and for 10 years before then with ribbon planar panel setups in Magnepan for a short while with the 3.7 before the 20.7s… I do get the virtues and the issues involved in living with planars and OB and also in dealing with the constraints (for me a lot about getting bass extension without losing the essential lithe quality of OB and planar bass). That challenge of teasing them out at their extremes without losing their virtues in terms of coherence, wholeness and immediacy, especially with 2 way OB panels with SET. Also the mid woofers do seem to be not at their best with higher damping amps at any rate. It is a bit of a design riddle and a loop.
From everything you’ve said about how good it is I would also not be changing your amp out… especially if your mid woofers are crossing out as high as 1200hz… maybe instead would adding something like powered slot loaded OB subs down below 80hz be worth considering, especially with you moving into your new larger space? Either way sounds a shade more viable than adding $44k more of the Blade amps as exciting (and enjoyably expensive) as that sounds.
Its Bonzo, Carlos and Alrainbows fault. They got me to listen to video. I became very aware how much losses are experienced in a passive crossover. I can hear the amp and drivers have more to give. But its being held back from dynamic contrast.
I am not suffering. The last couple days I have fallen into a few vinyl sessions and sat in awe listening to Brubeck, Pepper, Peterson, Fleetwood Mac, Eagles. Floored how natural and engaging the sound it. Drums in particular. Best my system has been. Cymbals shimmer as good as I could ask for. Far better to my ears than other systems I have heard that are way more expensive. Better in detail, speed and a purity with classical and Jazz. Not better with chicks and guitars.
I know there is more to be had. Its a great foundation. I want to push more towards a horn sound without chaging my system and going to horns. I have a house to build. Our income went from massive cash flow to no cash flow. Just eating interest.
I thought I had some chokes coming. The guy can't find them. But I am hesitant to dig into a crossover. Its way above my understanding.
Years back I talked about direct coupling my amp to my Voxativ. Violin was outstanding. Then the piano hit and it fell apart. I get there is something to it and want to investigate the option.
