Active Crossovers
- Thread starter Kingrex
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[Listening test] Marchand XM126-3 tubed active crossover & PS127 power supply
Marchand XM126-3 Crossover with Marchand PS127 power supply, a review by Mark Wheeler on TNT-Audio - Internet HiFi magazine - www.tnt-audio.com
www.tnt-audio.com
Now this one looks interesting
As a data point if you want a low cost crossover to experiment with take a look at this DBX 223. I have one in my 4 way analog active set-up and it's fine. Even using with compression drivers the noise level sighted as a possible issue is not in my set-up. It's a simple 2 way there is also a 3 way version available.
Rob
dbx 223xs Crossover Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the dbx 223xs active analog balanced crossover. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $245. I must say this is a nice and sturdy package for such a bargain price. Controls feel nice as well. Functionality though is confusing given the...
www.audiosciencereview.com
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I used a DBX223 for a couple of years. Not bad for sure. The sublime audio I replaced it with has a significant improvement however.As a data point if you want a low cost crossover to experiment with take a look at this DBX 223. I have one in my 4 way analog active set-up and it's fine. Even using with compression drivers the noise level sighted as a possible issue is not in my set-up. It's a simple 2 way there is also a 3 way version available.
Rob
dbx 223xs Crossover Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the dbx 223xs active analog balanced crossover. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $245. I must say this is a nice and sturdy package for such a bargain price. Controls feel nice as well. Functionality though is confusing given the...
Again, for a digital only system, the Mini-DSP Nanodigi and your own DACs works very well and is very easy to use and to dial in a system. I went analog active only to accommodate my turntable.
NanoDigi needs dedication DAC on the output.
I also looked at the MiniDSP SHD but that is 4 mono out. I need 3 stereo or 6 mono.
The Ashley Protea or some of the Yamaha have 6 outputs. That would allow me the flexibility to Tri Amp.
Yes, I said it needs your own DACs. So, if you have only 1 DAC get a second one for a two-way setup.
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You got it the other way around. Signal before the power amp is low current driving high impedances. Signal after the power amp is high current driving low impedances. High current means higher losses. The use of inductors in passive crossover networks also introduces hysteresis losses and complex interactions with the back EMF from the drivers.
My preamp wants to see a minimum 20K impedance on its load. 100K is best.
I was looking at a amp that is 13k. My current amp is around 30k.
If I paralleled these amps to biamp my pre would see about 9k ohms. Pretty low.
If I put a actuve crossover between the amps and pre, and the active was 100kOhms on the input, would my pre see 100k ohms? In other words, do the loads plugged into a active ceossover change the impedance of the device.
Lets assume this is either electronic or analog.
I was looking at a amp that is 13k. My current amp is around 30k.
If I paralleled these amps to biamp my pre would see about 9k ohms. Pretty low.
If I put a actuve crossover between the amps and pre, and the active was 100kOhms on the input, would my pre see 100k ohms? In other words, do the loads plugged into a active ceossover change the impedance of the device.
Lets assume this is either electronic or analog.
Yes, the preamp output would see 100kOhms load. Whatever load the crossover is driving is not seen by the preamp.
What is wrong with using opamps?
I would argue the sublime audio offering would be more transparent Vs a Marchand tube crossover no?
I've got directly heated triodes in my dac, preamps and power amps and I would far rather have a solid state analogue crossover Vs one using 9 pin tubes adding unwanted distortion.
Happy to be told my argument is incorrect but that's my thinking.
I'm going off what OCD Mike says. He said something along the lines of op amp can be a little hard and mechanical sounding. He had a Marchand tube unit made up for him, but I never saw him use it and describe the difference between it and one with op amps.
I am extremely sensitive to "mechanical" sounding equipment, that glassy sound of cybals and piano can ruin the listening experience. Having listened to quite a few digital (horrible sounding) and pro audio analogue (add a veil and reduce resolution) units I find the Sublime audio analogue crossover totally transparent.
Possibly because their SNR and THD numbers are crazy low.
Nonetheless, given I'm never selling my magnepan 20.1s I am always open to even better analogue crossovers so might reach out to Marchand and see what they say.
Possibly because their SNR and THD numbers are crazy low.
Nonetheless, given I'm never selling my magnepan 20.1s I am always open to even better analogue crossovers so might reach out to Marchand and see what they say.
Sublime is analog? Just in the signal, not speaker path.
I bought an album I like on Qobuz and downloaded it. Then access the file through HQ player. Last night, I was comparing the downloaded file to streaming through Qobuz. While they were close, I know exactly what you mean when hearing cymbals and piano. HQ player is better.
I know, I know. I can spend $100,000 on Taiko/Lampizator to get rid of that noise. Or I could purchase a $6000 switch and another $5000 in LPS to power my modem and router.
I could buy the Schnerzinger gear for $20k
I'm sure it would all help streaming.
I could also redo the electrical to the room I'm in. Currently it's far from optimized.
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The sublime audio unit is analogue, no AD conversion. I've also used DBX and Behringer analogue crossovers that were very average indeed. I've also used Behringer and Monacor digital units. The Behringer was laughable bad. The Monacor DSP was actually pretty transparent but I had two fail on me plus the Sublime unit is better.
I use it after my type 45 preamp to split the signal between my Atma-shere OTL monos and my bass amps that run the bass section of each panel. I don't use subs. Unlike the 20.7, the 20.1 have huge and heavy external crossovers that can be removed for active running.
I have an extra two-way Marchand XM44 crossover if you're interested, but you must do a shoot-out between it and the Sublime and report back
I replaced it with a three-way XM44, so it's just here collecting dust. I use the Marchands on my 3.6Rs.
I have had the following analog active crossovers:
Bryston 10B. Put a noticeable veil over the music…didn’t stay long.
Accuphase F25: Transparent and reasonable tone but a bit flat in dynamic expression.
Accuphase F15L: basically same as F25 but a bit less of everything.
If you use a digital crossover, get one with digital out and use your own DACs…then it will sound very good…if your DACs are good. You will need as many DACs as drivers you need to crossover.
My next stop will be a Marchand X126 tube crossover to see it it beats the SS ones I have owned, plus the whole damn system it goes in is tube anyway.
Having spent a vast amount of time trying different combinations of streamers, DACs and network connections I was able to finally achieve a total analogue sound for around $15k total outlay. This is using Qobuz.
Nighthawk X10 router with LPS ( total cost around $300).
Finisar SFP transceiver from Nighthawk directly into the SFP port of a Rose RS130 streamer.
No switch whatsoever.
Acuhorn R2R T with 45 tubes.
That's a kind offer, thank you. Where are you based?I have an extra two-way Marchand XM44 crossover if you're interested, but you must do a shoot-out between it and the Sublime and report back
I replaced it with a three-way XM44, so it's just here collecting dust. I use the Marchands on my 3.6Rs.
I went with the Marchand XM26 crossover because it is the simplest active crossover that I could find. It uses eight tubes total. I’m using new Genalex Gold Lion 12aX7 and 12aT7’s. This system is just as quiet with unbalanced interconnects as it is with balanced interconnects. No need for the added complexity of a balanced unit here.
If you only use one or two pole filters, the signal goes through three triode stages from input to each output. If you need three or four pole filters or require a notch filter, then the signal goes through four triode stages. According to Phil there are only two blocking capacitors in the signal path. I opted for the 0.5dB 24 step attenuators that he offers. They track within 0.01dB of each other so the imaging never shifts when fine tuning settings. It’s a great sounding minimalist design.
At my request, he customized it using HEXFRED diodes for the B+ bridge rectifier. Those provide the best midrange and most open high frequencies of any SS diodes that I have used. He also provided the frequency modules with Bessel filters and changed the circuit to optimize the output stage for a 12aT7 instead of 12aX7 so it can drive full output level into a 10k Ohm load. This was important because I use remote controlled attenuators with a 10k Ohm input impedance at the input of each power amp. This arrangement leaves the DAC’s full line level output connected directly to the crossover all the way through the 15’ interconnects to the mono-block amps located at the speakers. Having the volume control after the crossover and interconnects attenuates both the signal and any possible noise from everything upstream of the amps. It’s so quiet that even with my ears right up to the 107dB H.F. driver and 99dB L.F. driver, I can’t tell if the amps are turned on or off.
Before this a Pass Labs XVR-1 crossover was used in the system. Which is no slouch. In comparison the XM26 beats it in every regard. It sounds more transparent, more like a straight wire. With better low-level detail retrieval, dynamics, imaging and much more realistic bass and tone. Overall, everything sounds more real. I can definitely recommend it for a minimalist active crossover solution.
