To Sub Or Not To Sub, That Is The Question

[sigbergaudio]

The data for the passive sub is not smoothed! You can see that on the upper bass! Hoffmans Iron Law? No more!

I provided a spectral response from the listening position with a 75Hz crossover in place. It is basically flat with no eq! It would measure that way from all room positions with small variations in response no nulls. If you can’t hear the nulls what is their importance. Don’t ignore the facts!

Do you have a technical employee that can join the conversation perhaps? All the graphs you have shared so far and all the graphs on your website employ significant smoothing.

The spectral response is also nowhere near detailed enough to prove anything. To have a somewhat flattish response in one listening position in a room isn't unheard of, so you either need to provide additional examples and with greater resolution, and/or show measurements of both this and a traditional sub in the same location and present differences between them.

 

[Musical Bass]

Do you have a technical employee that can join the conversation perhaps? All the graphs you have shared so far and all the graphs on your website employ significant smoothing.

The spectral response is also nowhere near detailed enough to prove anything. To have a somewhat flattish response in one listening position in a room isn't unheard of, so you either need to provide additional examples and with greater resolution, and/or show measurements of both this and a traditional sub in the same location and present differences between them.

You wouldn’t purchase any loudspeaker product without a guarantee that it will work in your room! I don’t care what type of graphs a manufacturer provides your decision comes after you have tried your best to make it work. Enough said!

 

[sigbergaudio]

You wouldn’t purchase any loudspeaker product without a guarantee that it will work in your room! I don’t care what type of graphs a manufacturer provides your decision comes after you have tried your best to make it work. Enough said!

I would also not purchase a product that claims to defy the laws of physics just because the manufacturer says "It is true, no proof is needed".

I am not saying graphs are everything. However, you are making very specific claims that can be easily proved by graphs, so it's strange to not provide that.

 

[treitz3]

@Musical Bass - Do you sell this sub you are talking about?

Tom

 

[Musical Bass]

I would also not purchase a product that claims to defy the laws of physics just because the manufacturer says "It is true, no proof is needed".

I am not saying graphs are everything. However, you are making very specific claims that can be easily proved by graphs, so it's strange to not provide that.

The enclosure is less than a cubic foot in volume! The 20Hz sine wave is with a few watts of power regardless of level. Now if you are knowledgeable about Hoffmans Iron Law you will know that it is impossible to do so by laws of physics! I’m trying to pass on knowledge that the law has been broken or bypassed is a better term!

You have to hear (objectively) what that means for 21st century loudspeaker technology! This will benefit loudspeakers in general to make them smaller and better in all respects!

 

[Lagonda]

You wouldn’t purchase any loudspeaker product without a guarantee that it will work in your room! I don’t care what type of graphs a manufacturer provides your decision comes after you have tried your best to make it work. Enough said!

Yes enough said, time for you to move on !

 

[Robh3606]

The enclosure is less than a cubic foot in volume! The 20Hz sine wave is with a few watts of power regardless of level. Now if you are knowledgeable about Hoffmans Iron Law you will know that it is impossible to do so by laws of physics! I’m trying to pass on knowledge that the law has been broken or bypassed is a better term!

Time to stop feeding the xxxxl

Rob

 

[Musical Bass]

Apprehension on steroids here! The ear is the only instrument that you need to know if it works! No nulls here guys ! We will eventually get some reviews on this product but you have a measurement of the sub! It is beating Hoffmans Iron Law or should I say avoiding that situation of compression! Compromise in the meantime until we get adequate feedback from the public and you become a believer.

The data for the passive sub is not smoothed! You can see that on the upper bass! Hoffmans Iron Law? No more!

What are peaks if not variations in level? If you eliminate nulls there are still peaks, though again you claim your subwoofer gets rid of (or significantly reduces) room variations so should deal with those as well. Peaks are easy, nulls are hard.


Excellent, prove it. Graphs are fine, preferably of several points across the room, and with the components, speakers, measuring system and test conditions documented as for any experiment. Several folk keep asking for that since our time is valuable and integrating a new sub can be time-consuming, plus we have to pay upfront for the sub(s), but so far we've seen no real proof of your claims. There are many subwoofers with low distortion and high SPL but none AFAIK claim to mitigate room modes with a single sub near the speakers.

A high-output, low-distortion, very efficient, small subwoofer is a worthy thing but I am questioning its ability to mitigate room modes as claimed.

I offered to have a member review the sub without paying! I don’t feel that a solution is wanted for these room issues.

 

[Musical Bass]

I would also not purchase a product that claims to defy the laws of physics just because the manufacturer says "It is true, no proof is needed".

I am not saying graphs are everything. However, you are making very specific claims that can be easily proved by graphs, so it's strange to not provide that.

Offered to have the product reviewed on this forum! No takers so what is one to think!

 

[Musical Bass]

@Musical Bass - Do you sell this sub you are talking about?

Tom

Yes

 

[Musical Bass]

The data for the passive sub is not smoothed! You can see that on the upper bass! Hoffmans Iron Law? No more!

I offered to have a member review the sub without paying! I don’t feel that a solution is wanted for these room issues.

If nulls are minimized room response is more manageable with DSP. Our non resonant design does not emphasize modes!

 

[Musical Bass]

Yes enough said, time for you to move on !

I thought that this forum was for those with a problem! Perhaps you have made your decision and are happy with it. There are others that are not and have not found a solution here.

 

[treitz3]

Yes

Then, in order to stay within the TOS of this forum - You need to disclose your affiliation within the industry in your signature.

13. If you work in any industry relevant to the topics discussed in our forum, you must show that clearly in your signature. While we encourage our industry insiders to use their real names (or parts thereof), aliases are allowed as user names.

Also, this thread is not an infomercial, nor will it become an unpaid advertisement for your product. Please stick to the topic at hand.

Tom

 

[Musical Bass]

Then, in order to stay within the TOS of this forum - You need to disclose your affiliation within the industry in your signature.

13. If you work in any industry relevant to the topics discussed in our forum, you must show that clearly in your signature. While we encourage our industry insiders to use their real names (or parts thereof), aliases are allowed as user names.

Also, this thread is not an infomercial, nor will it become an unpaid advertisement for your product. Please stick to the topic at hand.

Tom

I’m not exactly sure what you mean! My first post steered them to our website! We are a promoting a solution to the problem of whether to use a subwoofer or not with really serious patented tech. I am trying to help the situation with information regardless of whether they buy anything! If you are familiar with Hoffmanns Iron Law it is not breakable! Our patented technology eliminates that entire issue while making the rooms acoustics a moot issue. Your members have posted the patent on the forum. It’s a solution to a serious audio problem. Is that not beneficial to the forum! Real Innovation!

I’m not sure of the signature so make it clear to me as to how to sign.

 

[Holmz]

…

I’m not sure of the signature so make it clear to me as to how to sign.

“A manufacturer who makes claims of physics defying technology too good to be true.”

 

[Musical Bass]

“A manufacturer who makes claims of physics defying technology too good to be true.”

Using physics to finish the job as there has never been a consensus on how to load a broadband piston with accuracy. No challenges to the patent so there will be new terms and explanations. Perhaps you don’t understand the patent but that’s innovation.

 

[Holmz]

Using physics to finish the job as there has never been a consensus on how to load a broadband piston with accuracy. No challenges to the patent so there will be new terms and explanations. Perhaps you don’t understand the patent but that’s innovation.

Whether or not one understands what is happening at the physics level, one could understand that something is happening.
So far we have not seen proof of that… as mentioned here:

I would also not purchase a product that claims to defy the laws of physics just because the manufacturer says "It is true, no proof is needed".

I am not saying graphs are everything. However, you are making very specific claims that can be easily proved by graphs, so it's strange to not provide that.

 

[sigbergaudio]

The data for the passive sub is not smoothed! You can see that on the upper bass! Hoffmans Iron Law? No more!

I offered to have a member review the sub without paying! I don’t feel that a solution is wanted for these room issues.

Yes it is. 1/6th smoothing, and it is impossible to see anything in the upper bass, the graph has 10dB between each line.

 

[sigbergaudio]

@Musical Bass

If you've really been able to make any sort of progress and innovation here, that's awesome! But you need to stop expecting people to just believe it because you say it, and listen to the feedback you get.

Go back and take proper measurements to prove your claims, then I think both sales and forum discussions will be much easier afterwards.

 

[Holmz]

Yes it is. 1/6th smoothing, and it is impossible to see anything in the upper bass, the graph has 10dB between each line.

View attachment 135326

And alongside the 300dB on the Y-Axis, the X-Axis goes from 2 Hz to 30,000 Hz.
Usually subwoofer plots go more to a few hundred Hz.

It can be likened to inspecting a tree leaf from a 100,00 foot high U2 photo.