Airtight Opus 1, ch precision p1, Techdas AF3 premium combo but which tonearm?

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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#21
I have the Master Sig on the VPS 100 phono stage with an Emia silver SUT and it is anything but laid back ;-)

This cart has so much energy across the board - I would describe the bass in my setup as cavernous in its depth along with very good articulation.

In fact I was surprised at how resoundingly this cart trumps my Koetsu Blue Lace Platinum - the Koetsu is great but the Master Sig is in a different ball park in terms of dynamics, bass extension, and transparency. It is perhaps in this latter aspect that I think the Master Sig really shines - it makes my Koetsu sound veiled in comparison.
Personally the master signature is my favorite and koetsu the least.
 
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MadFloyd

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May 31, 2010
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#22
It definitely is laid back compared to the master signature. Fremer did not like the master signature with the CH, he thought it didn't suit from what I gathered from the review, he preferred it with the Ypsilon
That's interesting (and helpful) to know that Fremer didn't like it with the CH... I'll have to read his review - thanks, Ked.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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#23
Thanks for that link, Mike. It seems that gimbal arms are getting some attention from designers again, with VPI, Durand, and SAT making new gimbal designs. The Tosca seems to have a very clever and convenient VTA adjustment mechanism. Do you know if Joel thinks that VTA should be adjusted for different LPs?
in my dozens (hundreds?) of sessions with Joel he has never adjusted VTA for each pressing. but i can't recall discussing it with him, so i don't want to speak for him.

as far as the Tosca making that easy, i'd say not exactly....although it seems simple enough. but i've not really had to play around with it much since it was set up. i do intend to move my new Ortofon Anna Diamond to the Tosca when i install it on the Saskia II turntable. maybe figuring that out will allow me to see just how much trouble changing VTA is.
 
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shakti

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May 9, 2015
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#24
I find that the Opus 1 lacks dynamics, resolution and deep bass (although it has a lot of mid bass). It's a very laid back presentation. At least that's what I experience with my P1 (either in current or voltage inputs). I've been wondering if the Colibri Master Sig would be better.
because of the laid back presentation, I prefer the Air Tight carts with a tonearm like FR64s, this tonearm gives some more energy to the music.
 
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bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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#25
because of the laid back presentation, I prefer the Air Tight carts with a tonearm like FR64s, this tonearm gives some more energy to the music.
Makes sense
 

Tango

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Mar 12, 2017
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#26
the Master Sig is in a different ball park in terms of dynamics, bass extension, and transparency. It is perhaps in this latter aspect that I think the Master Sig really shines - it makes my Koetsu sound veiled in comparison.
Best transparency is what I hear from the MS in my system too. It let me hear deeper into the music, more naked and then sense more dimensionality.

My Opus1 comes second on this regard. I am lucky both of my Opus1's do not sound laid back...if the definition of laid back is something like taking it easy or getting lazy. Bonzo was talking Opus in comparison to MS. The MS is the energetic king among other carts I own.
 
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bazelio

Active Member
Sep 27, 2016
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#27
I have the Master Sig on the VPS 100 phono stage with an Emia silver SUT and it is anything but laid back ;-)

This cart has so much energy across the board - I would describe the bass in my setup as cavernous in its depth along with very good articulation.

In fact I was surprised at how resoundingly this cart trumps my Koetsu Blue Lace Platinum - the Koetsu is great but the Master Sig is in a different ball park in terms of dynamics, bass extension, and transparency. It is perhaps in this latter aspect that I think the Master Sig really shines - it makes my Koetsu sound veiled in comparison.
I'd love to drop in at a convenient time and hear your new setup, Joe.
 
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bazelio

Active Member
Sep 27, 2016
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#28
Best transparency is what I hear from the MS in my system too. It let me hear deeper into the music, more naked and then sense more dimensionality.

My Opus1 comes second on this regard. I am lucky both of my Opus1's do not sound laid back...if the definition of laid back is something like taking it easy or getting lazy. Bonzo was talking Opus in comparison to MS. The MS is the energetic king among other carts I own.
Interestingly, Tang, even in your Max Richter YouTube recordings, I could sense the somewhat duller and more laid back presentation of the Opus1 vs the Master Sig.
 

kodomo

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Apr 26, 2017
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#29
I have the master sig, I will take it to my friend when his tt arrives and we can try and listen to different carts on his setup.
 

kodomo

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Apr 26, 2017
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#31
Is it for your 11" 4Point?
Yes, it is for my 4 point. I have sent it to A.J. Van den Hul to be readjusted for my arm, it is back. This is the busiest time for my work but hopefully I will be able to put it on and adjust it. I will let you know. How about you, have you readjusted ms sig arrived?
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
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#32
Yes, it is for my 4 point. I have sent it to A.J. Van den Hul to be readjusted for my arm, it is back. This is the busiest time for my work but hopefully I will be able to put it on and adjust it. I will let you know. How about you, have you readjusted ms sig arrived?
Thanks - looking forward to your report. I expect my own sometime in the next couple weeks. Meantime, using my Tri-Planar version.
 

kodomo

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Apr 26, 2017
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#33
Thanks - looking forward to your report. I expect my own sometime in the next couple weeks. Meantime, using my Tri-Planar version.
I have worked all weekend but it is evident my cartridge does not suit well to 4 point. I hope yours get better tuned than mine. It came back from A.J. Van den Hul but in terms of compliance I can not hear a difference. It sound gorgeous and lively when it works but it highlight uppermid/treble section, mistracking distortion on loud passages and I could not get over it whatever I did. I put damping in both axis. I added a dereneville headshell mat. They brought it down but not good enough. So I put back my Kuzma cart on Sunday night and I will be putting ms sig to classifieds section preferably looking for a swap. I will be getting a cartridge right for my arm from the start as I really like this arm and would like to continue with it. I will be looking for carts like lyra atlas or etna.
 
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bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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#34
I have worked all weekend but it is evident my cartridge does not suit well to 4 point. I hope yours get better tuned than mine. It came back from A.J. Van den Hul but in terms of compliance I can not hear a difference. It sound gorgeous and lively when it works but it highlight uppermid/treble section, mistracking distortion on loud passages and I could not get over it whatever I did. I put damping in both axis. I added a dereneville headshell mat. They brought it down but not good enough. So I put back my Kuzma cart on Sunday night and I will be putting ms sig to classifieds section preferably looking for a swap. I will be getting a cartridge right for my arm from the start as I really like this arm and would like to continue with it. I will be looking for carts like lyra atlas or etna.
Have you tried in another phono? Or are you sure it's the arm cart mismatch causing the distortion
 

kodomo

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Apr 26, 2017
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#35
Have you tried in another phono? Or are you sure it's the arm cart mismatch causing the distortion
I have not but my phono pre has different load and gain adjustments. I tried different loads, gain settings and even set it to much lower than what has been written by users here, it made no difference on distortion. So, I ruled out the phono pre part.
I checked my tangential geomerty with different protractors. Set the vtf from 1.35 to 1.55 and everything in between. Tried low, parallel or high vta, anti skate from 0 to 1gr...

By the way I can not put my ad on classifieds here as paypal does not work in Turkey. So if anyone is up for trade just pm me. It is just tested two times on weekend so hardly used.
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
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#36
I have worked all weekend but it is evident my cartridge does not suit well to 4 point. I hope yours get better tuned than mine. It came back from A.J. Van den Hul but in terms of compliance I can not hear a difference. It sound gorgeous and lively when it works but it highlight uppermid/treble section, mistracking distortion on loud passages and I could not get over it whatever I did. I put damping in both axis. I added a dereneville headshell mat. They brought it down but not good enough. So I put back my Kuzma cart on Sunday night and I will be putting ms sig to classifieds section preferably looking for a swap. I will be getting a cartridge right for my arm from the start as I really like this arm and would like to continue with it. I will be looking for carts like lyra atlas or etna.
Wow - sorry to hear that - you waited so long for it.

What does the effective mass spec say on the box lid?

I recall the upper-mids, treble and top treble as hi-lighted and *very* lively for the first 15 or so albums. That settled down, or better said, came into balance with the mids and lows over the next ~15 albums. The mistracking distortion on loud passages is more disconcerting - there I'd look at anti-skate, though typically vdH suggests minimal.

Other carts ... yes, I really like the arm as well and want a good match. By the numbers the Opus-1 looks like decent match with weight at 12.5g and compliance at: 8×10-6Cm/Dyne. I'm curious if any others have run an Atlas on the 4P 11"; there, solely by numbers, it is not as good a match on paper. I'd want to hear from others experience. I can say the Fuuga works well with the arm though its not quite in same class as the MS - still a v. enjoyable cart.
 

kodomo

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Apr 26, 2017
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#37
Wow - sorry to hear that - you waited so long for it.

What does the effective mass spec say on the box lid?

I recall the upper-mids, treble and top treble as hi-lighted and *very* lively for the first 15 or so albums. That settled down, or better said, came into balance with the mids and lows over the next ~15 albums. The mistracking distortion on loud passages is more disconcerting - there I'd look at anti-skate, though typically vdH suggests minimal.

Other carts ... yes, I really like the arm as well and want a good match. By the numbers the Opus-1 looks like decent match with weight at 12.5g and compliance at: 8×10-6Cm/Dyne. I'm curious if any others have run an Atlas on the 4P 11"; there, solely by numbers, it is not as good a match on paper. I'd want to hear from others experience. I can say the Fuuga works well with the arm though its not quite in same class as the MS - still a v. enjoyable cart.
It is not highlighting of upper mids and treble that is my concern. Especially dynamic LP's like d2d ones, loud passages, hi hats, crashes turn into swooshing sounds

My 4 point is standart length and has an effective mass of 18gr.
Lyra Etna seems to be a perfect match, hitting 8.809 hz
Lyra atlas hitting 8.445 hz which is also very good, why would you think atlas would not match on paper?
Opus 1 on the other hand is 10.189hz, it is not as good a match as Lyra as far as I can calculate but may work.
Colibri ms sig with a dynamic comp of 20x10-6 hits 6.957hz and if it is 18x10-6, hits 7.357hz which are not good.
Kuzma's own cartridges which I have hit 8.507hz
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
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#38
Maybe we are looking at different numbers... And I don't know how you're measuring what I presume is resonance frequency.

vdH does not say Dynamic Compliance for MS - at least from what I've seen - they do give recommended tonearm effective mass for each cart.

I was asking about the MS spec'd effective mass of the cart you're using on the 4P 11". vdH usually gives a range and it is written on the MS box lid - at least for the one's I've seen. Do you have that?

What I did other carts mentioned ...

Given 4P effective mass of 18g and weight of cartridge+screws I was looking at the compliance numbers for the various cartridges, then seeing resonance frequencies at Vinyl Engine calculator. There are other calculators.

https://www.vinylengine.com/cartridge_resonance_evaluator.php?eff_mass=18&submit=Submit

From manufacturer Web sites:
Atlas: 12 x 10-6cm/dyne at 100Hz
Etna sL: 12× 10 cm/dyne at 100 Hz
Opus-1: 8×10-6Cm/Dyne

You'll note on the Vinyl Engine calculator, the Dynamic Compliance in the left side vertical column is stated in terms of 10Hz. ("The resonant frequencies calculated by the evaluator are applicable only to those measured at 10Hz.") Most Japanese carts give their compliance in terms of 100Hz, so compliance with those numbers are not directly comparable. Unfortunately there is no conversion formula. I've read recommendations to multiply compliances given at 100Hz by 1.5 to 1.75 depending on who is making that suggestion.

So, if that makes sense, at x1.5 Atlas for example, would have compliance around 18 x 10-6cm/dyne. Opus-1 is quite a bit lower than Lyra carts.

But maybe I misunderstand your method. Kindly correct me if so.

Of course actual use will tell the tale better than paper calculation.
 

kodomo

Well-Known Member
Apr 26, 2017
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#39
On my box it says 10 to 16gr for effective mass...

I use vinyl engine calculator or the more precise calculator at resfreq.com they show the same results."

Lyra Atlas and Etna has same dyn. comp. but different weights. Atlas is heavier than etna hence the different results.
Opus 1 has 8x10 and is 12.5gr. So with 18gr 4 point, you can see in vinyl engine it corresponds to 10hz, resfreq says 10.189hz.
For Lyra cartridges they are both 12x10 but are 11.6gr (atlas) and 9.2gr (etna) so they correspond to 9hz on vinyl engine calculator and the refreq gives the numbers I have written up above. This is how I come up with the numbers. You say they are not applicable for these calculators because they are for 100hz for the Lyra cartridges. I just saw that.
 
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tima

Industry Expert
Mar 4, 2014
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#40
On my box it says 10 to 16gr for effective mass...

I use vinyl engine calculator or the more precise calculator at resfreq.com they show the same results."

Lyra Atlas and Etna has same dyn. comp. but different weights. Atlas is heavier than etna hence the different results.
Opus 1 has 8x10 and is 12.5gr. So with 18gr 4 point, you can see in vinyl engine it corresponds to 10hz, resfreq says 10.189hz.
For Lyra cartridges they are both 12x10 but are 11.6gr (atlas) and 9.2gr (etna) so they correspond to 9hz on vinyl engine calculator and the refreq gives the numbers I have written up above.
I do not mean to disagree, maybe we are seeing this differently...

I multiply compliance numbers given at 100Hz by 1.5, as suggested by resfreq.com. That may be the difference in the numbers we each see. That factor could be higher up to 2.0.

Take Opus-1 for example:
8×10-6Cm/Dyne at 100Hz X 1.5 yields dynamic compliance of 12
12.5g weight + 0.5 gram for bolts is 13g.

At Vinyl Engine, for 18g Effective Mass, compliance of 12 for 13g gives 9Hz, well within their 8-11Hz green range. But even your 10.189Hz would be in that range.

At resfreq.com:
Tonearm EF 18 + Cart+Bolts 12.5 (30.5) yields 8.319Hz.

Atlas at 12 x 10-6cm/dyne at 100Hz X 1.5 gives 18 compliance
11.6g weight + .5g bolts is 12.1g.
VE shows 7Hz dynamic compliance - probably okay ?

At resfreq.com
Toneam EF 18 + Cart+Bolts 12.1 (30.1) with 18cu gives 6.838Hz

Thanks for your MS effective mass, 10-16g.. If it was me I would have distributor tell vdH I'd like adjustment to support 18g EF - which is what I had to do. But the process is very tedious and vdH does as the does.
 

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