Visit to MadFloyd

[cjfrbw]

Another great report. I am glad there is a method to his MadFloyd-ness.

 

[morricab]

While I was visiting PeterA in Boston Peter set up a listening appointment with Ian (MadFloyd). Peter and I spent some time with Ian ourselves, and then the three of us went out for lunch, and then Al M joined us for lunch and the four of us went back to Ian’s for additional listening.




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Let me first dispel a misimpression I believe some people have about Ian’s efforts to evaluate components and to finalize his system. Many people know that Ian has hosted a revolving door of equipment in his home over the last couple of years. This may lead people to think that Ian is chasing his sonic tail or unclear of what is his sonic target. This is not the case. Ian grew up playing a musical instrument and he has a recording studio in his basement. Talking with Ian over the telephone previously and spending time listening to music with him in person makes it clear to me that Ian knows what he’s doing and that Ian has in mind a clear sonic goal he is trying to achieve.

Ian has what I consider to be one of the most challenging rooms I have ever seen. The left side wall is open and the rear wall is angled. I personally think that any room with a non-parallel front wall and rear wall is very difficult. Ian locates the MPros at a different distance to the front wall. (KeithR has a similarly difficult room, but Keith chooses to locate the speakers the same distance from the front wall. Only experimentation will allow one to learn which configuration is the lesser sonic compromise.)

I found Ian’s system to be very dynamic, very transparent and highly resolving. I think there is an excellent sense of presence. Low frequencies were powerful and detailed and very resolved. Ian’s system should sound great: every single component is top-of-the-line in its category.

Ian is very happy and content with his Magico MPro loudspeakers and his Convergent Audio Technology JL-7 amplifiers. Also in the system is a CH Precision phono stage.

Congratulations to Ian for getting a Studer 807! Ian uses a King Cello external tape repro amplifier. We compared my tape and Peter's LP of Ray Brown's Soular Energy. We all agreed the tape sounded more transparent, more dynamic and more in-the-room real. (It has been a personal mission of mine to enable Peter to hear for himself a great-sounding tape to explain why I am so focused on tape.)

We switched back-and-forth between the darTZeel NHB-18NS line preamplifier and the conrad-johnson GAT II line preamplifier. We also switched once between the Lyra Atlas SL and the Air Tight Opus 1 cartridges. So four different combinations were in play at different times.

We played among other things:

"Send in the Clowns" by Bill Henderson, Live at the Times (Jazz Planet Records/Classic Records)

"First We Take Manhattan" and "Bird on a Wire" by Jennifer Warnes, Famous Blue Raincoat (Rock the House Records/Classic Records) (I know this is a digital recording.)

“Pictures at an Exhibition” on The Power of the Orchestra, Rene Leibowitz, RPO, Chesky RC30

”I've Got the Music in Me" by Thelma Houston, I've Got the Music in Me (Sheffield Lab 2)

"Hallelujah" by Jeff Buckley, Grace.​

We spent a lot of time listening to the second half of “Pictures at an Exhibition” and “I’ve Got the Music in Me.” After Ian played the second half of Pictures with the Atlas SL through the darTZeel I literally applauded!

Ian then played the same track through the cj GAT II preamp. For some reason there was a significant diminution in dynamics, drive, energy and “live-ness” when we switched to the cj on that particular track. The magnitude of the difference was puzzling. On that particular track the cj sounded oddly lethargic.

Then we compared the Thelma Houston through both line stages, and here the darTZeel’s margin of superiority over the cj in terms of dynamics and drive was negligible.

Then Ian replaced the Atlas SL with the Opus 1. I preferred the Opus 1 over the Atlas SL (but I always do). I heard the Opus 1 to have more warmth and greater tonal color and harmonics and, maybe, slightly greater dimensionality than the Atlas SL.

We left for Ian the homework of figuring out why the dynamic/energy/life gap between the darTZeel and the cj varied so dramatically depending on the music being played.

Thank you, Ian, for hosting that afternoon listening session! I was very happy to meet you in person, and to hear your amazing system!

I am very happy for you that you are done on most critical components, with only one or two pieces left to go!




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How would you compare the CAT amps on Magico vs. Pass Class A?

 

[Ron Resnick]

I cannot. There was not a single component in common between these two systems so it is impossible to divine the sonic impact of any particular component.

I do think it would be very interesting to hear an apples-to-apples comparison isolating the sound of Pass Labs amps (reputed to be among the warmer-sounding solid-state amps) versus the sound of CAT amps (reputed to be among the cooler-sounding of the output-transformer tube amps).

 

[morricab]

Thanks for the kind comments, Ron. It was a pleasure to meet you and have you over to listen. And that tape... wow. I tried to convince Ron that it was a New England audiophile custom to always leave a tape behind when visiting another audiophile for the first time and seeing how he only had one tape with him... but he wasn't buying it.

I think the CJ was shortchanged during this session. We started with the dartzeel because it was the preamp that was hooked up and the one I prefer for orchestral music. After we listened to Pictures we switched and as already stated, it did not compare. Not sure if it was a lower volume or if I didn't have it warmed enough (?) but the difference shouldn't have been as dramatic. Before we could listen to much more music Ron asked to listen to tape. The interconnects I had were not long enough to reach the CJ so we switched back to the Dartzeel.

I do like both preamps a lot. I wish one was a clear winner but unfortunately for me I find myself preferring one over the other for certain genres.

While I LOVE my system these days, I am not attached to any equipment in such a way that I wouldn't consider something else if it made sense. I do think I am pretty 'set' with the MPros as they are a great all-around speaker - basically chameleons that sound like whatever you feed it. Besides, these are so big and heavy that I really hope I never want anything else. Just recently I damaged a tweeter (totally my fault) and needed to replace it and I panicked, thinking I would have to ship it back across the country to Magico! Fortunately I didn't have to, surgery was done in the field thanks to the bravery of my dealer (Mark Jones) and help from PeterA and Alan Jordan - and of course, Magico. This was done Thursday evening, just a few days before Ron visited...!

Anyways, as previously mentioned, we switched from the Atlas SL (which was really singing in the SME 3012R) to the Opus1 which I yet to hear either on the SME or with the CJ GAT so lately I've been in full GAT/Opus1 mode, dragging out LP after LP... too much fun.

Thanks again for visiting, Ron!

How long did you allow the Gat for warmup? Why didn’t you switch it on and keave it idling while doing the other tests? I find my tube pres keep getting better up to at least one hour.

As to th volume level, was it a big difference because that can totally bias the outcome. When I was reviewing I would match with pink noise to less than a dB because 2or 3db difference is really noticeably changing perceptions.

 

[Ron Resnick]

How long did you allow the Gat for warmup? Why didn’t you switch it on and keave it idling while doing the other tests? I find my tube pres keep getting better up to at least one hour.

As to th volume level, was it a big difference because that can totally bias the outcome. When I was reviewing I would match with pink noise to less than a dB because 2or 3db difference is really noticeably changing perceptions.

GAT II warm-up: ask Ian

volume level: I agree completly that slighly different volume levels can yield misleading impressions. I am very well aware of that. I was the one who whipped out a SPL application on the iPhone just to have something to go by. So we all were sensitive to the importance of matching volume.

A 2dB to 3dB difference would be a very obvious difference in volume.

I think our unanimous impression stands as we were focused, among other things, on the apparent "speed" of the sound, not just dynamics and volume, and the CAT II sounded oddly lethargic -- but only on that one (1) classical track.

 

[PeterA]

These were quite casual comparisons. The session was really more about introducing Ron to Ian and to Al and listening to some music. Of course the system left an impression on Ron and it is another data point for the various components. The tape sounded superb. That was a highlight. There was not much to take away between the preamps for me. The Thelma Houston "I Got the Music in Me" track was superb on both preamps. The Opus and Dart was a particularly fun combination on classical music, but really, it all sounded excellent. Did I mention the tape?

Ian is a wonderful host offering his guests excellent special coffees during the day and spirits in the evening, and the setting is an extremely comfortable place to sit, relax, and enjoy music. Lots of fun.

 

[jeff1225]

Great report Ron, it looks like you had full access to the Boston Audiophile Mafia. I've been trying to put together a listening session with Peter, Al and Ian on one of my family trips to the Cape, I'll make it a priority next time!

 

[ack]

I'd like to hear Ian's tape at some point. The short video he sent us the other day was quite special!

 

[MadFloyd]

I'd like to hear Ian's tape at some point. The short video he sent us the other day was quite special!

I'd like to get you over sometime soon, Tasos. Besides tape, I'd like your thoughts on the two preamps and two cartridges.

 

[ashandger]

I'd like to hear Ian's tape at some point. The short video he sent us the other day was quite special!

Is this video available on this forum or was it for your private viewing only? Love to see it if possible?

 

[ack]

Is this video available on this forum or was it for your private viewing only? Love to see it if possible?

Sorry it was private. I am sure Ian can produce another, longer one if he wants to share.

 

[microstrip]

(...) volume level: I agree completly that slighly different volume levels can yield misleading impressions. I am very well aware of that. I was the one who whipped out a SPL application on the iPhone just to have something to go by. So we all were sensitive to the importance of matching volume.

A 2dB to 3dB difference would be a very obvious difference in volume.

I think our unanimous impression stands as we were focused, among other things, on the apparent "speed" of the sound, not just dynamics and volume, and the CAT II sounded oddly lethargic -- but only on that one (1) classical track.

Ron,

Hand held iPhones with SPL applications during listening are not reliable enough to be used on comparisons - on the contrary, they are a source of errors. It is known since long that any human unconsciously and unwittingly manipulates sound levels to please his own bias - it is why levels should be established with proper tones and proper instruments and most shootouts are highly misleading.

Unanimity is considered a warning signal when checking for small subjective differences - it is why I appreciate reading contradictory opinions in reports. Just IMHO, YMMV.

One big issue of comparisons is the used methodology - the optimum sound level for one equipment can be different from that of other equipment, due for example to soundstage and timbre. Should we look for the subjective optimum of each or use just one fixed level at the risk of favoring one of them? I must say I am very selfish in these matters - I try to listen to equipment at the levels I usually listen in my room.

 

[PeterA]

Our listening session at Ian's house was far from any rigorous set of comparisons. It was more of a fun gathering to introduce a visitor and to listen to some music. Any impressions of the different cartridges or preamps were casual at best.

 

[MadFloyd]

I will try to answer some questions:

- The GAT might not have been fully warmed up (I don't remember how long it was on for before we listened to it, but my guess is a half hour). The classical piece in question was the first track we listened to on the GAT. It was entire side of an LP (conclusion of Pictures at an Exhibition) and I think the negative impression was mostly formed at the very end where the GAT didn't seem to sound 'powerful'. The music at this point is complex and slow, but should come across powerful. It is possible that the GAT needs to have music playing through it to truly warm up (my former CAT preamp and current CAT amps are like that). Other than listening to one other track (maybe two?) we ended up switching back to the Dartzeel for the remainder of the session. In hindsight it's unfortunate as I like the GAT a lot and think Ron would have appreciated it more if he got to hear more.

- That said, I do have the impression that the GAT doesn't handle complex music as well as the Dartzeel. I'm still need to test this out as the GAT is still relatively new.

- It is my impression that the GAT has better dynamics than the dartzeel for anything other than complex music. At a listening session a couple days before Ron arrived all listeners formed the impression that the GAT was much more dynamic and lively - more 'real' than the Dartzeel on jazz. It has startled me a number of times (jump factor?) on solo piano in a way that the Dartzeel hasn't.

- The video of tape playback that ack is referring to was very short clip that was used to demonstrate some strange RFI noise I was hearing in one channel. You're not missing anything.

 

[audioquattr]

Another great report. What a beautiful system!
One comment, those pictures looked a bit dark and blurred.
Or was it on purpose, the guys would look even more friendly..

 

[bonzo75]

Another great report. What a beautiful system!
One comment, those pictures looked a bit dark and blurred.
Or was it on purpose, the guys would look even more friendly..

Audiophiles listen with lights dimmed, so that the system sounds better

 

[PeterA]

Audiophiles listen with lights dimmed, so that the system sounds better

Dimming the lights often adds noise to the power line. I never dim the lights. I turn them off or use low wattage bulbs. I do not think Ian uses his dimmer either, though I am not certain. The photos were taken during the daytime and the lights added a weird yellow tint to the photos, so I think Ron turned the lights off for the photos. Dimmed lights are not good, IMO.

 

[audioquattr]

Audiophiles listen with lights dimmed, so that the system sounds better

LOL

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/show...r-Signature%94&p=533207&viewfull=1#post533207
Please don't turn the lights too much

 

[bonzo75]

Was just a joke on my part Peter

 

[microstrip]

I will try to answer some questions:

- The GAT might not have been fully warmed up (I don't remember how long it was on for before we listened to it, but my guess is a half hour). The classical piece in question was the first track we listened to on the GAT. It was entire side of an LP (conclusion of Pictures at an Exhibition) and I think the negative impression was mostly formed at the very end where the GAT didn't seem to sound 'powerful'. The music at this point is complex and slow, but should come across powerful. It is possible that the GAT needs to have music playing through it to truly warm up (my former CAT preamp and current CAT amps are like that). Other than listening to one other track (maybe two?) we ended up switching back to the Dartzeel for the remainder of the session. In hindsight it's unfortunate as I like the GAT a lot and think Ron would have appreciated it more if he got to hear more.

- That said, I do have the impression that the GAT doesn't handle complex music as well as the Dartzeel. I'm still need to test this out as the GAT is still relatively new.

- It is my impression that the GAT has better dynamics than the dartzeel for anything other than complex music. At a listening session a couple days before Ron arrived all listeners formed the impression that the GAT was much more dynamic and lively - more 'real' than the Dartzeel on jazz. It has startled me a number of times (jump factor?) on solo piano in a way that the Dartzeel hasn't.

- The video of tape playback that ack is referring to was very short clip that was used to demonstrate some strange RFI noise I was hearing in one channel. You're not missing anything.

Can I ask what is meant by "the GAT is still relatively new "? How many hours has the GAT2 been playing until now? Sorry if you already told, but what was the phono stage when using the GAT2?

In my experience the GAT2 handles complex music very well. But needs a real one hour warmup to show its qualities - as most tube equipment, BTW.