Alsyvox planars...prepare to sell your Magico's, YG's, Wilson's, Cessaro's. Maggie's, and all others!!

[gwalt]

I tried to post pics. and it says file is to big. Someone tell me how to get pics posted from a download and I would be happy to oblige. I never had trouble sending them anywhere else.
No this speaker is not the Leonardo....it is now a 3-way vs. 2 way with changes to the crossover, a new driver in the supertweeter, different cabinet changes etc. as Drk reported.
So far this speaker in less than a week has brought more value in listening than I have even imagined. The mid/super tweeter is stunning and takes you into the recording. I have not changed any of my electronics and am rediscovering my collection of music......and with streaming I will never get through it all. What's that worth to you only you can decide.
BTW the speaker is opening up since my last visit and the bass is getting more dynamic and tight.....again I have not changed a thing except time played. Best description is for my tastes in music is that they are addictive and musically engaging. Brings new meaning to musical life. Reminds me of a quality live sound I hear in the 1200 Club at The Holland Center in downtown Omaha.
Those that might want to see/hear for yourself let me know privately and we can make it happen if your willing to make the trip.

 

[wisnon]

Thel


The Leonardo is still being sold by a dealer for around 65k, so not double the price of the Botticelli. The Leonardo doesn’t have the ribbon super tweeter like the Botticelli. It has a piezoelectric super tweeter instead, pretty much for marketing purposes rather than real improvement like the ribbon super tweeter. Also Leonardo don’t have the teek wood diffraction guides. The crossover had to be redesigned too. They’re not the same speaker anymore. As for pricing, that’s an individual’s value judgment. Afterall this is WBF, not value based forums like DIY Audio or Audiocircle...most of the time you get what you pay for with the exception of cables

I was told 40K retail and now perhaps less given the uncertain future. Leonardo came first so cant be for marketing purposes. It set the standard as it was the original. Pricing is factual, so I don't understand your point about judgement.

As I said, minor differences, and people are free to make their own judgements. Do you trade of a bargain price for uncertain future support and if so at what price differential? That's an individual calculus. One thing that is commonly understood, is that they both sound good.
Leonardo Model 8

 

[Zero000]

I tried to post pics. and it says file is to big. Someone tell me how to get pics posted from a download and I would be happy to oblige. I never had trouble sending them anywhere else.
No this speaker is not the Leonardo....it is now a 3-way vs. 2 way with changes to the crossover, a new driver in the supertweeter, different cabinet changes etc. as Drk reported.
So far this speaker in less than a week has brought more value in listening than I have even imagined. The mid/super tweeter is stunning and takes you into the recording. I have not changed any of my electronics and am rediscovering my collection of music......and with streaming I will never get through it all. What's that worth to you only you can decide.
BTW the speaker is opening up since my last visit and the bass is getting more dynamic and tight.....again I have not changed a thing except time played. Best description is for my tastes in music is that they are addictive and musically engaging. Brings new meaning to musical life. Reminds me of a quality live sound I hear in the 1200 Club at The Holland Center in downtown Omaha.
Those that might want to see/hear for yourself let me know privately and we can make it happen if your willing to make the trip.

Are you hearing any dispersion issues as you walk across the soundstage?

That's a lot of vertical slits to push sound waves through. There must be some adverse affect. It is certainly noticeable on the MRTs fitted to Apogees.

That said congrats. I'm looking forward to hearing them this year at Munich.

 

[wisnon]

I tried to post pics. and it says file is to big. Someone tell me how to get pics posted from a download and I would be happy to oblige. I never had trouble sending them anywhere else.
No this speaker is not the Leonardo....it is now a 3-way vs. 2 way with changes to the crossover, a new driver in the supertweeter, different cabinet changes etc. as Drk reported.

Open your picture in a picture editor software and reduce the pixel count. There is normally a way to cut down the picture density and hence file size below 1mb and you should be easily able to post. Otherwise PM me with your email address and when we link up, you can email the picture to me to cut down for you.

 

[gwalt]

Not sure about the Leonardo's finding prices and spoke to the only dealer in the NE with Laufer-Teknics. I was not quoted $40K retail......not even that for a demo pair they are trying to sell. They quoted me $64K for a new pair until they heard I was looking at the Alsyvox. I never pursued it any further. I did this before the purchase of the Alsyvox that I secured to my liking.

 

[wisnon]

me $64K for a new pair until they heard I was looking at the Alsyvox. I never pursued it any further. I did this before the purchase of the Alsyvox that I secured to

Gwalt,
We likely heard different quotes at different times. No biggie.
As long as you are happy with your purchase, I am happy for you!

I am sure your speakers sound good, as I have a buddy with Apogees that really like what he heard from them last Munich.

 

[microstrip]

I’ve had it for 25 years. Yea, I’m sure it wasn’t rebuilt. The guy I bought it from was the original owner and told me they were stock. The guy who rebuilt my speakers said there was no evidence of tampering either.

It seems you are an exception - an exceptional conjugation of two extremely careful owners and good luck. I am sure that a never played set of ESL57 kept is good storage conditions would play perfectly today. However around 70000 units were manufactured and perhaps 99% of them needed service after a few years. IMHO reliability is a statistical entity. But surely we can debate the causes of damage - most times were due to improper use.

 

[dr k]

I was told 40K retail and now perhaps less given the uncertain future. Leonardo came first so cant be for marketing purposes. It set the standard as it was the original. Pricing is factual, so I don't understand your point about judgement.

As I said, minor differences, and people are free to make their own judgements. Do you trade of a bargain price for uncertain future support and if so at what price differential? That's an individual calculus. One thing that is commonly understood, is that they both sound good.
Leonardo Model 8

View attachment 47823

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I said the piezoelectric tweeter on the Leonardo was for marketing purposes because you couldn’t tell if that super tweeter made a difference. This according to a well known person who had them.
The retail price is factual, yes. But whether you think it’s worth the retail is value judgment.

 

[gwalt]

I would like to set the record straight on mis-information that gets created in these forums and this time the Leonardo speakers from posts above.
I was able to obtain accurate information from Daniele the designer of both the Leonardo and the new Alsyvox speakers.
Quote: Leonardo speakers are not made any longer since the end of 2013. Daniele's ex-partner is keeping the website on without his permission but he does not know how to build them and is not allowed to make them as Daniele owns patent and the technology. There might be one or two pairs still for sale from the North American distributor. The final version had a retail of $65K and if available today it would be higher due to increased costs.
The Alsyvox is the result of 4 more years of further development those namely being the introduction of neodymium magnets, new proprietary mid tweeter and super tweeter in a special compact assembly that enhances the top frequency performance. Solid teakwood enhances value of ne design.
I hope this clears up any speculation on the older Leonardo whereabouts. They are no longer made and are an older design from the same builder.
I can assure the information I have posted is accurate instead of make believe as above.
I can also assure you the Alsyvox is the real deal speaker if you want to explore a planar design. I am discovering my music collection over again and have rekindled in music emotion which is what these speakers do. They seem to get even better with time.
As stated if you ever want to make a visit for further curiosity you are welcome to an invite.

 

[DaveyF]

Gwalt, Thanks again for the update.

I know that you used to own and very much like horn type speakers. This forum features a number of horn devotees, many of whom believe that the horn type speaker is the only way to listen to classical and jazz! The other thing that most of these folks like, is the SET amp with their horn speaker. The typical SET amp is a lower powered tube driven piece. I wonder if you could give us some idea as to what you think the new Alsyvox speakers can do that your older horn type speakers were perhaps not as great at?
I started this thread on the planar Alsyvox speakers with the heading to trade in your Cessaro's...a well respected horn type speaker ( among the other well respected dynamic driver speakers mentioned in the title)-- and a speaker that does have some considerable merits. The Cessaro's also have a few models in the same price range as the new Alsyvox's...even the current top of the line Michaelangelo!

 

[jeff1225]

Gwalt, Thanks again for the update.

I know that you used to own and very much like horn type speakers. This forum features a number of horn devotees, many of whom believe that the horn type speaker is the only way to listen to classical and jazz! The other thing that most of these folks like, is the SET amp with their horn speaker. The typical SET amp is a lower powered tube driven piece. I wonder if you could give us some idea as to what you think the new Alsyvox speakers can do that your older horn type speakers were perhaps not as great at?
I started this thread on the planar Alsyvox speakers with the heading to trade in your Cessaro's...a well respected horn type speaker ( among the other well respected dynamic driver speakers mentioned in the title)-- and a speaker that does have some considerable merits. The Cessaro's also have a few models in the same price range as the new Alsyvox's...even the current top of the line Michaelangelo!

You forgot to mention the 3012R. You simply can't listen to classical and jazz without horn speakers, SET amps and the old warhorse 3012R.

 

[bonzo75]

Gwalt, Thanks again for the update.

I know that you used to own and very much like horn type speakers. This forum features a number of horn devotees, many of whom believe that the horn type speaker is the only way to listen to classical and jazz! The other thing that most of these folks like, is the SET amp with their horn speaker. The typical SET amp is a lower powered tube driven piece. I wonder if you could give us some idea as to what you think the new Alsyvox speakers can do that your older horn type speakers were perhaps not as great at?
I started this thread on the planar Alsyvox speakers with the heading to trade in your Cessaro's...a well respected horn type speaker ( among the other well respected dynamic driver speakers mentioned in the title)-- and a speaker that does have some considerable merits. The Cessaro's also have a few models in the same price range as the new Alsyvox's...even the current top of the line Michaelangelo!

Actually most of the horn lovers like planars apart from horns. See thomask, he loves the WE and the. Analysis and arion audio. My other love ribbon planar and stats. For the general, after his horns it's quads. Pietro of yamamura owned apogee full range before. Your mentor DDK owned apogee grands, full range, and divas before. You will find many more such instances. All these guys are classical and jazz. Brad owned planars before falling in love with horns and Christoph owns both. Tao loves Maggie 20.7 and tune audio Anima

 

[LL21]

I am a big fan of Apogees...and have only ever heard horns 4-5 times. 3 of them Cessaros...1 was not an ideal setup. 1 was with AudioExotics so presumably extremely meticulously set up. Then 3 other times with what appeared to be careful set up.

Somehow did not love any of them, despite being a huge fan of Apogees EVERY time i have heard them.

I suspect from the readings here, that (like many speakers) horns need careful set up and can change sound quite critically based on set up. Need to listen again it seems.

 

[bonzo75]

I am a big fan of Apogees...and have only ever heard horns 4-5 times. 3 of them Cessaros...1 was not an ideal setup. 1 was with AudioExotics so presumably extremely meticulously set up. Then 3 other times with what appeared to be careful set up.

Somehow did not love any of them, despite being a huge fan of Apogees EVERY time i have heard them.

I suspect from the readings here, that (like many speakers) horns need careful set up and can change sound quite critically based on set up. Need to listen again it seems.

Actually many horns are more different from each other than from your speakers. If you didn't like Cessaro that's fine, there are many more to listen to which have nothing in common.

 

[DaveyF]

Actually most of the horn lovers like planars apart from horns. See thomask, he loves the WE and the. Analysis and arion audio. My other love ribbon planar and stats. For the general, after his horns it's quads. Pietro of yamamura owned apogee full range before. Your mentor DDK owned apogee grands, full range, and divas before. You will find many more such instances. All these guys are classical and jazz. Brad owned planars before falling in love with horns and Christoph owns both. Tao loves Maggie 20.7 and tune audio Anima

LMAO, you need to look up the word 'mentor'! Ked, your humor is certainly on good display today!

Horns have their devotees, no question about it, and while I can understand that some people like what they bring to the table, I cannot comprehend why so many fail to hear their numerous weaknesses. OTOH, if you are a 'dynamics above all' kind of listener, then I totally get the devotion.

I asked Gwalt the question I did, because he comes from a fairly long period of being a horn devotee...having owned this type of speaker along with the SET amp that many feel is an excellent match up. Gwalt has now gone on from the horn type speaker, to a speaker that I suspect should be on anyone's short list to hear...assuming, that is, that they want to hear wherein the horn design falls down and the weakness of same get exposed.
For example, I am 100% certain that these new Alsyvox's will not have any 'cupped hands' distortion!

 

[DaveyF]

You forgot to mention the 3012R. You simply can't listen to classical and jazz without horn speakers, SET amps and the old warhorse 3012R.

Oh,you are right, you can certainly listen to the bearing chatter and convince yourself that this is how music sounds, LOL.

 

[LL21]

Actually many horns are more different from each other than from your speakers. If you didn't like Cessaro that's fine, there are many more to listen to which have nothing in common.

Based on what i have read occasionally here, it seems like Alsyvox is a natural evolution of the Apogee sound...and the Apogee Stages were one of my all time favorite speakers.

On the horn side, what would you recommend?

 

[gwalt]

I once owned the Avantgarde Duos Mkll and the Edgarhorn Titan in which that can be viewed under Audiogon moniker Gwalt Virtual Systems.
I forgot to take that system down from the AG website. Shame on me. I owned the Edgarhorns 13 years and drove them with a Korneff 45 and a Border Patrol 300B. Being wood they had a really pure midrange with either tube but overall was hard to beat the 45. The midrange was a JBL 2441 compression driver. At the end I switched to a beryllium diaphragm but I liked the balance in the stock aluminum better.
I also have a friend in Omaha who owns the Avantgarde Trio with 3 pair of bass horns......and have heard the Cessnero along with Acapella hybrids......all great speakers.
My take on horns is that they can sound beautiful in the midrange/top end but have some tricks to integrate the bass with the speed of the horns. If you look at my Edgarhorns you can see the size of the refrigerator sub. It was true horn loaded sub. driven by its amplifier and active crossover. It was slower than the 111 DB efficient midrange but big and musical. It had a modified Electro Voice driver.

First of all, this speaker has more holographic imaging and is just as dynamic. It is also more coherent than my old horns and simply disappears better with a bigger-taller soundstage. Horns still have cabinet/driver coloration that is hard to get rid of. This speaker creates a "wall of sound" and I am hearing pinpoint imaging. As I said it is closer to live music as I have ever heard.
Most of all they don't advertise themselves in the room......they simply disappear better with the planar panel built to high standards.
I am not missing the dynamics of my horns a bit owning these. They have speed and the top end ribbon is like a lightning bolt. Those of you at RMAF and good ole JV heard them project a Big Band with amazing purity and dynamics into a 20X25 room. Actually it was startling alive sounding and it energized the room. I am getting that addictive quality on a lot of music now.
These may not be in quite as impactful bass territory as a "really" well designed dynamic speaker but the musicality of the bass with integration should satisfy most. Also I have no clue what amplifier impacts the best bass on these but I don't have tubes that does it nor sure about my SS.
All I am saying is that the best may also be right there with a more impactful bass amplifier. I don't know the answer yet nor does my room experimentation?
What the two panel Alsyvox must sound like???? Maybe going to be in Munich I heard Daniele mention in passing.

 

[DaveyF]

I once owned the Avantgarde Duos Mkll and the Edgarhorn Titan in which that can be viewed under Audiogon moniker Gwalt Virtual Systems.
I forgot to take that system down from the AG website. Shame on me. I owned the Edgarhorns 13 years and drove them with a Korneff 45 and a Border Patrol 300B. Being wood they had a really pure midrange with either tube but overall was hard to beat the 45. The midrange was a JBL 2441 compression driver. At the end I switched to a beryllium diaphragm but I liked the balance in the stock aluminum better.
I also have a friend in Omaha who owns the Avantgarde Trio with 3 pair of bass horns......and have heard the Cessnero along with Acapella hybrids......all great speakers.
My take on horns is that they can sound beautiful in the midrange/top end but have some tricks to integrate the bass with the speed of the horns. If you look at my Edgarhorns you can see the size of the refrigerator sub. It was true horn loaded sub. driven by its amplifier and active crossover. It was slower than the 111 DB efficient midrange but big and musical. It had a modified Electro Voice driver.

First of all, this speaker has more holographic imaging and is just as dynamic. It is also more coherent than my old horns and simply disappears better with a bigger-taller soundstage. Horns still have cabinet/driver coloration that is hard to get rid of. This speaker creates a "wall of sound" and I am hearing pinpoint imaging. As I said it is closer to live music as I have ever heard.
Most of all they don't advertise themselves in the room......they simply disappear better with the planar panel built to high standards.
I am not missing the dynamics of my horns a bit owning these. They have speed and the top end ribbon is like a lightning bolt. Those of you at RMAF and good ole JV heard them project a Big Band with amazing purity and dynamics into a 20X25 room. Actually it was startling alive sounding and it energized the room. I am getting that addictive quality on a lot of music now.
These may not be in quite as impactful bass territory as a "really" well designed dynamic speaker but the musicality of the bass with integration should satisfy most. Also I have no clue what amplifier impacts the best bass on these but I don't have tubes that does it nor sure about my SS.
All I am saying is that the best may also be right there with a more impactful bass amplifier. I don't know the answer yet nor does my room experimentation?
What the two panel Alsyvox must sound like???? Maybe going to be in Munich I heard Daniele mention in passing.

Gwalt, thank you. This would seem to me to be a great reason why anybody in the market for a new speaker in the range of the Alsyvox should try and give these a listen.( whether you are a rabid horn devotee or not). I know that I am going to try and hear these on my first opportunity.

 

[DaveyF]

Based on what i have read occasionally here, it seems like Alsyvox is a natural evolution of the Apogee sound...and the Apogee Stages were one of my all time favorite speakers.

On the horn side, what would you recommend?

Lloyd, from what I have heard, and another reason for the thread, these new Alsyvox's are the real deal. The designer has apparently solved the terrible impedance dip that the old Apogee's required one to deal with ( and that basically eliminated 90% of all amps out there). To that, he has addressed the panel flap that was also problematical with the Apogee's and significantly increased the quality of construction. All of which lead me to believe that this could well be the final speaker for a lot of folks... assuming one has the room to place them, and of course, the funds to acquire them. If they happen to be demoing in the UK, may well be worth a trip to hear.