Alsyvox planars...prepare to sell your Magico's, YG's, Wilson's, Cessaro's. Maggie's, and all others!!
- Thread starter DaveyF
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Gwalt, do you have any insight/instinct on how the Alsyvox models w the additional seperate bass panels sound?
i am with you on this...will be interesting to hear if I get the chance! Meanwhile, I do wonder if the Gryphon Mephistos might not be a great partner for them.
Sorry Spirit I do not know. My guess is everything gets bigger yet and even more you are there for big rooms plus more impactful bass. If you read the room dimension chart on the Alsyvox website I think you get the idea they must be way like a live concert only refined. Mine are rated at 25-100 CM.....and the two panel goes way bigger still. All I know is the Bonticelli had no trouble energizing a 20-25 rm at RMAF. Remember I have them in a 15.3 X 19 room and just chilling out until I can move them to my bigger room. i am still recovering from set-up from shipping.
Great question. I would surmise that they probably reach down a few more db in the bass, but then the question arises as to what this does to the integration of the drivers, and more importantly ( IMO) what the additional panel(s) would do for the impedance match.
The flagship model, the Michelangelo, is a three panel affair ( per side), which would seem to me to be problematical, but without hearing it..??
Davey,
Given what you and I have both experienced and espoused (the power of well-integrated subs)...i wonder if the designer (having custom-designed the bass panels) actually is delivering substantially greater sense of ease, expanse, soundstage...looking at the specs, it is clear at least by surface area coverage of bass panel, Michelangelo doubles and triples vs the Caravaggio being 50% more bass panel area than the Botticelli.
So i suspect a notable increase in range...but a REALLY big increase in soundstage power, SCALE.
Given what you and I have both experienced and espoused (the power of well-integrated subs)...i wonder if the designer (having custom-designed the bass panels) actually is delivering substantially greater sense of ease, expanse, soundstage...looking at the specs, it is clear at least by surface area coverage of bass panel, Michelangelo doubles and triples vs the Caravaggio being 50% more bass panel area than the Botticelli.
So i suspect a notable increase in range...but a REALLY big increase in soundstage power, SCALE.
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Classical and jazz is too general to be used as a classification for audio purposes. From what I read in this forum most of these horn devotees consider mainly some very specific types of recordings in this genres in their comments ...
I suspect you wont be able to audition the two panel design without going to Munich. With that said consideration would have to be a giant room to integrate well with something of this magnitude. The Bonticellis will energize a rather large room but large budgets and rooms certainly do exist or he would not be making them available.
Given what I know of Daniele, he is a perfectionist and would not throw something together without lengthy beta testing. He has never once made me wonder his specifications and performance ratings. You just have to meet him to understand as I have done.
Given what I know of Daniele, he is a perfectionist and would not throw something together without lengthy beta testing. He has never once made me wonder his specifications and performance ratings. You just have to meet him to understand as I have done.
Does anyone realize that for 200K for a system featuring these, you could hire a 3 piece ensemble to play for you for 2 hrs 3 times a week (20 man-hrs@50/hr= 1000/wk for 4-6 years. Just trying to put a bit of reality in the discussion. You could setup a rotating schedule of various musicians. Heck, if solo piano or cello is your thing, you could splurge for a 100/hr musician and do about 6-9 years, mix in some more pedestrian musicians and you could get 10-15 yrs. You could even interact with them. Setting up the talent and schedules would take less effort than what's spent here. Heck, you could even miss your own private performances and not worry about it just like when you travel and your 200K system is sitting idle for weeks. Oh yeah, that's what the Singer heiress did when living in Paris 100yrs ago. 
Full disclosure: I like nice gear too.
Full disclosure: I like nice gear too.
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Does anyone realize that for 200K for a system featuring these, you could hire a 3 piece ensemble to play for you for 2 hrs 3 times a week (20 man-hrs@50/hr= 1000/wk for 4-6 years. Just trying to put a bit of reality in the discussion. You could setup a rotating schedule of various musicians. Heck, if solo piano or cello is your thing, you could splurge for a 100/hr musician and do about 6-9 years, mix in some more pedestrian musicians and you could get 10-15 yrs. You could even interact with them. Setting up the talent and schedules would take less effort than what's spent here. Heck, you could even miss your own private performances and not worry about it just like when you travel and your 200K system is sitting idle for weeks. Oh yeah, that's what the Singer heiress did when living in Paris 100yrs ago.
Steve, that point is well taken. But then one could ask why does anyone spend any money on high end gear when the possibility is always there to either do a) as you suggest with musicians or b) visit more 'live' venues and expand one's musical exposure. I think that the system that costs more than most people's house in the US is an interesting talking point. However, we do have to remember that the expense on a lot of this gear really is not that much to a lot of folks...and to some the most expensive system is really only chump change!
BTW, here's another thing to consider....for the kind of money that is spent on a lot of this gear, the audio consumer could acquire a magnificent musical instrument and take lessons from the best instructors for years. The end result would be a highly fulfilling in road into the heart of music. ( Yes, I fully understand that talent does come into the playing of a musical instrument...but IME there are very few people who cannot take up an instrument and get to a certain level, regardless of their ability ( IME enough to garner a great deal of enjoyment)....with enough practice and assistance)
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Lloyd, my concern with a multi side by side panel design, like the larger models from Alsyvox, is the blending of the panels and their drivers. The oft mentioned 'vertical blind' effect is usually a result of this type of driver arrangement. One of my good a'phile buddies recently made an interesting point, he stated that he believes that a speaker needs to have fewer drivers and be as simple as possible in order to really not get in its own way and to sound as neutral as possible.
Nonetheless, since I have NOT heard any of the Alsyvox's, i must withhold judgement, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the sweet spot of their line lies in the Botticelli.
That's quite a misleading comment. Ddk and Pietro don't look for specific type of recordings. The General is based around recordings, but his knowledge of music... Classical and jazz... is encyclopedic... it is not that he is now aware of the modern artists, just that he chooses to stick to the golden era... And he has everything from originals to reissues and repress. Most of the other horn owners are not based around recordings, and I used to like horns when I was purely digital, when I started exploring analog, and now when I started exploring quality recordings. Though with better analog and better recordings, it did become a stronger case for me
I would take cones over hybrids from Cessaro and AG and Acapella any day. I don't consider hybrids proper horns for the same reasons you mention, woeful bass integration. I don't even like their mids. I don't know the Alsyvox, but as a lover of Apogees I did consider what I think about them compared to trios with bass horns - I preferred the trios to Duettas and Divas, and preferred Henk's grands and the Scintilla he made for Christoph to trios. The pure ribbon had better mids and tones than trios, the panel was the most coherent speaker I heard with seamless bass integration (all drivers being ribbons), I loved the wall of sound and the true bass.
Yet after that I heard some DIY horns which were better than the Grands, because they did better bass (with two 18 inch woofers in each speakers with high sensitivity), OMA Monarch which has a panel type of presentation and two 15 inch woofers in each speaker, and a few others. The Yamamura and Pnoe top them all. Some of these are custom and bespoke, but then so are Alsyvox. None of these are established big firms like Wilson and Magico, or Logans and even the Apogees of today which have many restorers globally.
All I am saying is judging horns by hybrids is misleading imo, and there are extremely few good horns. So it becomes a back and forth between panels and horns.
Also, may I ask if your source is digital, and if you are also into analog, are you into recordings?
Hey there is no back and forth from me on Hybrids and think I explained quite well what I have heard and what I disliked about them. The Edgarhorns as a hybrid were far more musical than the others I mentioned. The DIY horns I might very well like as I did like my SET amps. however in most instances there is little substitute for quality higher power in any system. I think what the horns did for me was play beautifully.....they sounded pretty with SET. In a perfect world you might own horns and these? However, at the end of the day these are doing much the same with a total lack of coloration and don't forget they have dynamics to spare. You may argue there is better had bass in this world at an expense but hard to argue you won't find better mids and upper than these with the quality ribbons. As in all audio there will be trade-offs in any of this gear. It gets down to what you like most.
I am no longer using an analog front end. As mentioned earlier I am using a 2 year old CAT pre without the latest all black path caps.....the BPA not BPX. I have not spoken to anyone that can describe the differences yet on the upgraded version except CAT and they claim the factory supplied tubes are the best.....LOL! I am using the T+A MP 3100 HV and now all digital with SACD/CD, downloads and streams. Having retired some 2 years ago I found analog to much work and therefore moving on and could not be happier with that decision. My analog back in the glory was a tricked out Linn.
I listen to every type of music and rock the least.
As far as the comment above about prices of any of this gear it gets down to your budget, wealth vs. required tastes. I just heard a system at RMAF retailing @ a smooth $1.1 M and was not that impressed with the quality I heard in that room. Hell they might of sold it at the show I don't know. I leave most shows thinking OMG should I be doing this hobby any longer. In the end, music is an important part of my life and kept me sane during my 40 year high stress management career so to each his own. Simple as that.
As Davey mentions these speakers should be on everyone's dream speaker list......nothing more than that. Go listen for yourselves I can only offer that I have extended an invitation.
I am no longer using an analog front end. As mentioned earlier I am using a 2 year old CAT pre without the latest all black path caps.....the BPA not BPX. I have not spoken to anyone that can describe the differences yet on the upgraded version except CAT and they claim the factory supplied tubes are the best.....LOL! I am using the T+A MP 3100 HV and now all digital with SACD/CD, downloads and streams. Having retired some 2 years ago I found analog to much work and therefore moving on and could not be happier with that decision. My analog back in the glory was a tricked out Linn.
I listen to every type of music and rock the least.
As far as the comment above about prices of any of this gear it gets down to your budget, wealth vs. required tastes. I just heard a system at RMAF retailing @ a smooth $1.1 M and was not that impressed with the quality I heard in that room. Hell they might of sold it at the show I don't know. I leave most shows thinking OMG should I be doing this hobby any longer. In the end, music is an important part of my life and kept me sane during my 40 year high stress management career so to each his own. Simple as that.
As Davey mentions these speakers should be on everyone's dream speaker list......nothing more than that. Go listen for yourselves I can only offer that I have extended an invitation.
Gwalt I wasn't referring to your speakers in particular but in general trying to clarify that horns should not be used as a general term especially effete hybrids are concerned. Horns are much more diverse than panels or cones ime. Also, there are many colored SETs and there are neutral SETs. I would personally never rate AN or Kondo.
I intentionally asked about the source because with digital the gap for me between panels and horns narrows, while with analog especially with quality recordings it increases in favor of horns
I intentionally asked about the source because with digital the gap for me between panels and horns narrows, while with analog especially with quality recordings it increases in favor of horns
bonzo75.....good for you! If you have never heard these you should go take a listen in all that is worth. Unfortunately space is limited......I think Munich will have the 2 panel version this year and nothing more in the US except me for now and I am working on more as I think the smaller model Tintoretto has a market here and Daniele is great to work with.