Alsyvox planars...prepare to sell your Magico's, YG's, Wilson's, Cessaro's. Maggie's, and all others!!

[cjfrbw]

Thank you GT Audioworks for your response. Further question, is the bass panel (only) a full ribbon like an Apogee, or is it some form of mylar/plastic imbedded with wire or ribbon drivers like a maggie? Would you ever construct the midrange/high ribbon and the bass panel (each) as separate free standing enclosures?

Also, what is the nominal crossover between the ribbons?

It sounds like you have an excellent modular system for replacing the drivers if necessary.

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

I haven't heard the Alsyvox but if you replaced that with a modded Scintilla, Full range, or Henk's Grands, my reply would be the same choosing that over all those others.

You haven't heard it, but would choose something you have heard over the Alsyvox? too funny...

 

[bonzo75]

You haven't heard it, but would choose something you have heard over the Alsyvox? too funny...

No I didn't say that read again... Replace the Alsyvox and keep the sentence the same

 

[planarman]

When I spoke to the designer, I thought he said it was MDF. Are you the designer or the dealer? My feux pas, but MedX is similar to MDF but denser and little more expensive.

You are wrong about the magnets. The Alsyvox uses neodymium magnets, which I found out through direct communication with the designer. That's how Alsyvox Botticelli achieves 94dB efficiency. How do you know, Alsyvox doesn't use contrained layer technique? It uses steel sandwiched between acrylic. You seem to more about the design of the Alsyvox than the designer himselft?

So GT doesn't use Kapton or Myler. So what? What is this secret material you are speaking of? Apogee has used Kapton and every electrostatic speakers I know have used Mylar. They time proven materials. Is this secret material time proven? Or will it fall apart before the warranty is up?

Yes, it's a scientific fact that copper is a better conductor than aluminum. But does that translate into better sound as implemented in a voice coil? Afterall, silver is a better conductor than copper, but some people can't stand the sound of silver.

GT Audio works will always be more transparent than Alsyvox? What's your proof? Some of the most transparent speakers on the planet like electrostats use crossovers. It's all in the total implementation.

As for your subwoofer towers, the designer of the driver is my friend. I know what they're capable of. They are very good for the price, but can they compete with the best subwoofers? There are better, but more expensive. Sorry, but Alsyvox makes better bass. The GT is a hybrid and is not a full range planar, unlike the Alsyvox with all the drivers being of the same material and design.

No need to get defensive. I wasn't trying to attack the product, just making comparisons. I am open to hearing your speaker and hope they sound as good as claimed. But in this business, superlative reviews come and go like hot cakes, so I rely on my ears.

It is the laws of physics-bass cannot be produced by a planar magnetic speaker the way an open open baffle servo woofer Like ours will. You do not know the type of technology that we are using nor the type of woofers we are using to produce this extraordinary bass.
Again the laws of physics will tell you that a planar Driver will never move as much air and pressurize the room the way a well designed servo open baffle system will.
Again the consumer must listen to both systems and make its judgment what you are I say does not mean a thing to the customer.

 

[dr k]

It is the laws of physics-bass cannot be produced by a planar magnetic speaker the way an open open baffle servo woofer Like ours will. You do not know the type of technology that we are using nor the type of woofers we are using to produce this extraordinary bass.
Again the laws of physics will tell you that a planar Driver will never move as much air and pressurize the room the way a well designed servo open baffle system will.
Again the consumer must listen to both systems and make its judgment what you are I say does not mean a thing to the customer.

I didn't know you made the laws of physics to claim a planar driver will never move as much as air. How do you define planar? I know a planar subwoofer claimed to go down into the low teens and play as high as 120 dB. It costs a fortune, but they claim it's a planar subwoofer.

How many people have used "laws of physics" argument in high end audio? According to laws of physics, only parameters you need for cable design is LCR and all cables should sound the same. Yet, we are still arguing about the sound of cables. According to physics, all amplifiers should sound the same if rated at the same power, yet they don't. So on.

Actually, the designer of GT told me what subwoofer driver is being used in the bass towers. And the designer of the subwoofer confirmed it. So are you saying you know more than both these designers? If you want, I can name the subwoofer drivers here on the forum. You make your subwoofer tower seem so magical, you don't want to spill the beans, when in reality they are just well designed standard dynamic subwoofers. I'm pretty sure I know what subwoofer amp you're using too given that it's a servo system. I've heard 6 12" tower open baffle subwoofers very similar to GT Audio. It sounds great.

Btw, Peter Breuniger makes a living by having manufacturers give him money to review their gear on YouTube. I've never seen him say anything negative about any product he reviews. So take it with a grain of salt.

 

[planarman]

I didn't know you made the laws of physics to claim a planar driver will never move as much as air. How do you define planar? I know a planar subwoofer claimed to go down into the low teens and play as high as 120 dB. It costs a fortune, but they claim it's a planar subwoofer.

How many people have used "laws of physics" argument in high end audio? According to laws of physics, only parameters you need for cable design is LCR and all cables should sound the same. Yet, we are still arguing about the sound of cables. According to physics, all amplifiers should sound the same if rated at the same power, yet they don't. So on.

Actually, the designer of GT told me what subwoofer driver is being used in the bass towers. And the designer of the subwoofer confirmed it. So are you saying you know more than both these designers? If you want, I can name the subwoofer drivers here on the forum. You make your subwoofer tower seem so magical, you don't want to spill the beans, when in reality they are just well designed standard dynamic subwoofers. I'm pretty sure I know what subwoofer amp you're using too given that it's a servo system. I've heard 6 12" tower open baffle subwoofers very similar to GT Audio. It sounds great.

Btw, Peter Breuniger makes a living by having manufacturers give him money to review their gear on YouTube. I've never seen him say anything negative about any product he reviews. So take it with a grain of salt.

First off physics aside two, three, four or 6-12 inch servo subwoofers will output a great deal more-bass energy in terms of SPL’s then any planar magnetic speaker by itself. I have witnessed this for myself as I have been a former wisdom, Martin Logan, Genesis and BG Radia dealer. You are fooling yourself if you think a 4‘11“ speaker will be anything close to the GT audio works system with the 2-12 inch open baffle drivers.
As far as the technology is concerned in the Servo subwoofer system - it is not so much as what brand you are utilizing but how it would integrate into the design theory of the GT speakers and how it ultimately sounds. This integration is seamless and other reviewer’s aside from Peter Breuninger have confirmed his rave reviews. Reviewers such as Myles Astor, Kempet Holt ,Todd Anderson of AV Nirvana, Part time audiophile and many more have all given the system rave reviews. The servo subwoofers are built into a specially designed open baffle cabinet and come with a Specially designed servo plate amplifier with crossover adjustments and other adjustments for fine-tuning. This is getting into a pissing contest all I have to say is let the customer decide which system is better and what makes more sense it doesn’t matter what you or I say what matters is what the customers ears and emotions dictate.

 

[dr k]

First off physics aside two, three, four or 6-12 inch servo subwoofers will output a great deal more-bass energy in terms of SPL’s then any planar magnetic speaker by itself. I have witnessed this for myself as I have been a former wisdom, Martin Logan, Genesis and BG Radia dealer. You are fooling yourself if you think a 4‘11“ speaker will be anything close to the GT audio works system with the 2-12 inch open baffle drivers.
As far as the technology is concerned in the Servo subwoofer system - it is not so much as what brand you are utilizing but how it would integrate into the design theory of the GT speakers and how it ultimately sounds. This integration is seamless and other reviewer’s aside from Peter Breuninger have confirmed his rave reviews. Reviewers such as Myles Astor, Kempet Holt ,Todd Anderson of AV Nirvana, Part time audiophile and many more have all given the system rave reviews. The servo subwoofers are built into a specially designed open baffle cabinet and come with a Specially designed servo plate amplifier with crossover adjustments and other adjustments for fine-tuning. This is getting into a pissing contest all I have to say is let the customer decide which system is better and what makes more sense it doesn’t matter what you or I say what matters is what the customers ears and emotions dictate.

Unlike you, I am a potential customer, not a dealer or a manufacturer. So yes, why are you having a pissing contest with a potential customer? It always looks bad for the dealer who seams to know no more than the average audiophile to have a pissing contest with experienced members here.

I never claimed the small Alsyvox had any bass output close to the subwoofer towers. Please read my comment again. My only claim is based on my experience with subwoofers which are very similar to your towers, the Alsyvox had better bass QUALITY, not quantity.

Siting reviewers are almost useless, as most reviewers review gear out of their living room apartments and bedrooms. I sometimes wonder what qualifies a person to become a professional audio reviewer other than having a laptop with an internet connection. And I can give you as many reviews on the Alsyvox.

I basically have the very same "specially designed servo plate amplifier" that is used in the towers. Instead of being so secretive, why don't you reveal who really are the manufactures of the drivers and plate amp? I know them. I've been in high end audio for 35 years and have industry friends who knows most of these designs and who actually manufacturers the components vs rebranded ones.

 

[planarman]

Unlike you, I am a potential customer, not a dealer or a manufacturer. So yes, why are you having a pissing contest with a potential customer? It always looks bad for the dealer who seams to know no more than the average audiophile to have a pissing contest with experienced members here.

I never claimed the small Alsyvox had any bass output close to the subwoofer towers. Please read my comment again. My only claim is based on my experience with subwoofers which are very similar to your towers, the Alsyvox had better bass QUALITY, not quantity.

Siting reviewers are almost useless, as most reviewers review gear out of their living room apartments and bedrooms. I sometimes wonder what qualifies a person to become a professional audio reviewer other than having a laptop with an internet connection. And I can give you as many reviews on the Alsyvox.

I basically have the very same "specially designed servo plate amplifier" that is used in the towers. Instead of being so secretive, why don't you reveal who really are the manufactures of the drivers and plate amp? I know them. I've been in high end audio for 35 years and have industry friends who knows most of these designs and who actually manufacturers the components vs rebranded ones.

My apologies I thought you were another dealer.
It really does not matter whether you know what particular woofer driver we use or what particular servo plate amplifier We are using they are tweaked for our system and built into a custom design cabinet to integrate and work seamlessly with the GT speakers. As Greg will tell you it is a technological tour de force To design this planar speaker to integrate with these servo subs. Again as a customer it is imperative to make an informed decision you cannot state that the Alysvox has better quality bass when you have not heard any iteration of the GT speaker. Our reference GT system with the 6-12inch servo subs are $47k
Our base system starts at under 25k with 2 -12 inch subs. If you are listening to a Botticelli speaker at $99,000 you owe it to yourself to listen to our reference system which is set up here in Massapequa New York . With the extra money you could buy yourself a nice yacht.

 

[dr k]

My apologies I thought you were another dealer.
It really does not matter whether you know what particular woofer driver we use or what particular servo plate amplifier We are using they are tweaked for our system and built into a custom design cabinet to integrate and work seamlessly with the GT speakers. As Greg will tell you it is a technological tour de force To design this planar speaker to integrate with these servo subs. Again as a customer it is imperative to make an informed decision you cannot state that the Alysvox has better quality bass when you have not heard any iteration of the GT speaker. Our reference GT system with the 6-12inch servo subs are $47k
Our base system starts at under 25k with 2 -12 inch subs. If you are listening to a Botticelli speaker at $99,000 you owe it to yourself to listen to our reference system which is set up here in Massapequa New York . With the extra money you could buy yourself a nice yacht.

Fair enough. I welcome any new "affordable" designs that will reset the bar.

 

[gwalt]

Personally I have had limited luck with dynamic drivers reacting in my available rooms. I even tried tube traps and although it helped it didn't agree with the rest of the music. Of course I tried all practical locations in the room to limited avail. The bigger room proved much easier to work with of course.
Experience in my rooms for options was that the planar bass was much better in musicality.....likely because of the dispersion characteristics and height of the reflections. My comments pertains to my Alsyvox speakers and others have not been tried in my current home. The Botticelli has plenty of slam and extension for my tastes. My measurement of quality and quantity is left to my ears and listening emotions.....what else really matters?
The planar panel dispersion pattern over the bass driver/box has been magic to me......much more integrated and real!
As in everything you will get the results your room allows you to achieve.
The argument of which is better will depend on your tastes, room dimensions and its chemistry.......audio basics and individual preferences.

 

[planarman]

Ok great. You are always more than welcome to audition the speakers. Hope you can make it to Axpona if not just let us know when you will be in New York. Thanks Steve -Sound Insight

 

[microstrip]

Henk's grands play bigger than the biggest Wilson's, with a lot of might. Easy to go hear

Did you listen to WAMM's?

Many planars can play bigger than the biggest cones - in some recordings my Soundlab's do it, but they do not scale down so naturally when needed as some cone speakers.

 

[microstrip]

I didn't know you made the laws of physics to claim a planar driver will never move as much as air. How do you define planar? I know a planar subwoofer claimed to go down into the low teens and play as high as 120 dB. It costs a fortune, but they claim it's a planar subwoofer.

Although there is no firm definition of a planar speaker, the most often seen concept refers to a box-less speaker having a large surface radiating diaphragm. Such dipole suffers from bass cancellation that starts when the shortest path between the front and the back wave is half wave length. However it is known that some rooms have such poor behavior in the bass that a dipole bass can sound better than a great monopole boxed speaker.

 

[GT Audio Works]

How do GTAW speakers compare to the competition ?

If you're asking the question for the same reason one might ask if Superman can beat up the Hulk ?
Fine have at it... enjoy yourself and post till 4 in the morning for all I care !!

BUT....If you're seriously considering such a purchase I would like to offer a bit of advice.
Don't listen to ANYONE !!! Not me, PlanarMan , a well regarded reviewer or even the friend of a friend who owns
a pair of said speaker....Go hear 'em for yourself.

Problem is... the possibility of hearing brand A, B and C under one roof in any meaningful comparison is impossible.
If it were me... and I was contemplating dropping north of $30 large on a pair of speakers, I would be sure to get on a train, plane or auto and leave any preconceived notions in my other coat pocket and hear all contenders in their natural habitat.
I can't speak for dealers who sell other brands, but I can tell you with complete confidence Steve at Sound Insight puts the effort into getting my speakers to sound their best. He will be glad to pick you up at the airport or train station and plant your butt in the sweet spot so you can hear just what this full range planar/ribbon and open baffle sub combo can do.

Be sure to bring plenty of demo tracks , Steve also has an extensive collection of music to choose from as well as killer 2 channel concerts you can watch on bluray and on 4k youtube..Yup youtube...I was over there the other day and was blown away watching and listening to stuff that no self respecting audiophile would think about listening to on his precious $100k speakers. Well let me tell ya...the system rocks !!
Tired of the same old Sheffield recording of Jim keltner tinkling on his symbol and bonking his tom-tom ?
Watch this kid on the Guitar Center drummer contest...standing on his drum seat smacking the shit out of his drum kit at live you are there volumes, kick drum thwacking your gut without the slightest sense of strain.
Then he puts on Kendrick Lamar..OH Nooo not rap !! yup...pulsing waves come up through the couch and vibrate your butt !! 110 db...clean as you please. And all this time the Pass Labs 60.8's arent even breaking a sweat.
Steve says..."This system is not a toy !!" And he is right.
But these are not insensitive brutes only designed for playing LOUD !!!...put on something like Mike Valentines Chasing the Dragon and hear the sopranos sweet voice reverberate across the huge church space and fill the room with her presence.

But hey...Please dont take my word..check it out for yourself.
Let me know when..I'll try to make it over as well !!

Greg
GTAW

 

[the sound of Tao]

Hi Greg,
I don’t want to go too far off topic in this Alsyvox thread but any chance you guys could give a bit more background on your Servo sub system (obviously in another thread if at all possible). Would love to hear your thoughts on the difference on adding additional pairs of ob woofers to the subs.

Also would be great to get more info on your upcoming models... I believe a threeway ribbon is in the works (pardon the pun).
Cheers
Tao

 

[GT Audio Works]

Hi Greg,
I don’t want to go too far off topic in this Alsyvox thread but any chance you guys could give a bit more background on your Servo sub system (obviously in another thread if at all possible). Would love to hear your thoughts on the difference on adding additional pairs of ob woofers to the subs.

Also would be great to get more info on your upcoming models... I believe a threeway ribbon is in the works (pardon the pun).
Cheers
Tao

Hi Tao...Good idea..
Please find me here....
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...-sound-insight-open-baffle-sub-woofers.27761/

 

[bonzo75]

Did you listen to WAMM's?

Many planars can play bigger than the biggest cones - in some recordings my Soundlab's do it, but they do not scale down so naturally when needed as some cone speakers.

I was referring to Alexandria. Yes soundlabs did not scale down in three soundlabs systems I heard, though I do not think those set ups were optimized, but guess you are finding the same

 

[gwalt]

How do GTAW speakers compare to the competition ?

If you're asking the question for the same reason one might ask if Superman can beat up the Hulk ?
Fine have at it... enjoy yourself and post till 4 in the morning for all I care !!

BUT....If you're seriously considering such a purchase I would like to offer a bit of advice.
Don't listen to ANYONE !!! Not me, PlanarMan , a well regarded reviewer or even the friend of a friend who owns
a pair of said speaker....Go hear 'em for yourself.

Problem is... the possibility of hearing brand A, B and C under one roof in any meaningful comparison is impossible.
If it were me... and I was contemplating dropping north of $30 large on a pair of speakers, I would be sure to get on a train, plane or auto and leave any preconceived notions in my other coat pocket and hear all contenders in their natural habitat.
I can't speak for dealers who sell other brands, but I can tell you with complete confidence Steve at Sound Insight puts the effort into getting my speakers to sound their best. He will be glad to pick you up at the airport or train station and plant your butt in the sweet spot so you can hear just what this full range planar/ribbon and open baffle sub combo can do.

Be sure to bring plenty of demo tracks , Steve also has an extensive collection of music to choose from as well as killer 2 channel concerts you can watch on bluray and on 4k youtube..Yup youtube...I was over there the other day and was blown away watching and listening to stuff that no self respecting audiophile would think about listening to on his precious $100k speakers. Well let me tell ya...the system rocks !!
Tired of the same old Sheffield recording of Jim keltner tinkling on his symbol and bonking his tom-tom ?
Watch this kid on the Guitar Center drummer contest...standing on his drum seat smacking the shit out of his drum kit at live you are there volumes, kick drum thwacking your gut without the slightest sense of strain.
Then he puts on Kendrick Lamar..OH Nooo not rap !! yup...pulsing waves come up through the couch and vibrate your butt !! 110 db...clean as you please. And all this time the Pass Labs 60.8's arent even breaking a sweat.
Steve says..."This system is not a toy !!" And he is right.
But these are not insensitive brutes only designed for playing LOUD !!!...put on something like Mike Valentines Chasing the Dragon and hear the sopranos sweet voice reverberate across the huge church space and fill the room with her presence.

But hey...Please dont take my word..check it out for yourself.
Let me know when..I'll try to make it over as well !!

Greg
GTAW

Greg,

In the end, I would agree with your post that if folks were really considering your design, Alsyvox, Magnepans, and any other contenders the only way to do it is to spend some time and money and go visit the dealers where the speakers can be spent some time with. I know that Alsyvox has a dealer in Maryland with the smaller model and you are in a similar neighborhood. Not sure if the Magnepan dealers are in the area but the east coast will eventually have the big model and possible other interests.
If I were in the market (and I won't be) I would be comparing all the talk with my own ears, eyes and room considerations. Do many of us buy cars without a touch and feel?
The smallish investment this would take to see find out for myself would be the only way to go and come away with the facts with their own ears and eyes can determine would be priceless to me and not fiction. And now it has been confirmed that shows won't likely be an option without much more expense and travel so this appears to be the best option if the interested buyers can satisfy their curiosities.

 

[Zero000]

First off physics aside two, three, four or 6-12 inch servo subwoofers will output a great deal more-bass energy in terms of SPL’s then any planar magnetic speaker by itself. I have witnessed this for myself as I have been a former wisdom, Martin Logan, Genesis and BG Radia dealer. You are fooling yourself if you think a 4‘11“ speaker will be anything close to the GT audio works system with the 2-12 inch open baffle drivers.
As far as the technology is concerned in the Servo subwoofer system - it is not so much as what brand you are utilizing but how it would integrate into the design theory of the GT speakers and how it ultimately sounds. This integration is seamless and other reviewer’s aside from Peter Breuninger have confirmed his rave reviews. Reviewers such as Myles Astor, Kempet Holt ,Todd Anderson of AV Nirvana, Part time audiophile and many more have all given the system rave reviews. The servo subwoofers are built into a specially designed open baffle cabinet and come with a Specially designed servo plate amplifier with crossover adjustments and other adjustments for fine-tuning. This is getting into a pissing contest all I have to say is let the customer decide which system is better and what makes more sense it doesn’t matter what you or I say what matters is what the customers ears and emotions dictate.

Corrected:

"This integration is far from seemless, and what's more, the closer you get to the speakers the more blatantly obvious it becomes.

This is due to the physical separation of the bass driver tower versus the planar magnetic driver, where this physical separation makes it impossible for the output of both to combine and blend effectively before it meets the ear.

Furthermore, the woofer towers use driver material that is inconsistent with the planar magnetic driver, and they operate in a substantially different manner. Therefore, it's sonic signature is rather different.

Therefore, seemless integration has not and never will be achieved with this design."

Come on Planarman, stop posting rubbish. I have only said above what many have surely thought. You can't get away with posting rubbish like that here. I could pick apart your other points, too.

Now I don't deny it's possible the speaker setup is capable of making a bloody good noise. But for heaven's sake, get real please.

 

[planarman]

Corrected:

"This integration is far from seemless, and what's more, the closer you get to the speakers the more blatantly obvious it becomes.

This is due to the physical separation of the bass driver tower versus the planar magnetic driver, where this physical separation makes it impossible for the output of both to combine and blend effectively before it meets the ear.

Furthermore, the woofer towers use driver material that is inconsistent with the planar magnetic driver, and they operate in a substantially different manner. Therefore, it's sonic signature is rather different.

Therefore, seemless integration has not and never will be achieved with this design."

Come on Planarman, stop posting rubbish. I have only said above what many have surely thought. You can't get away with posting rubbish like that here. I could pick apart your other points, too.

Now I don't deny it's possible the speaker setup is capable of making a bloody good noise. But for heaven's sake, get real please.

You completely overlooked the fact that the THX standard is 80 Hz the speakers are crossed over at 60 Hz so therefore everything you said does not make any sense because your ear is not as sensitive to low frequency signals that are below 80 Hz. They are less directional. You have not heard the speakers and obviously have a bone to pick because you own these grossly overpriced Alysaxox speakers.
There are many satisfied customers who have posted on what’s the best form extolling the virtues of the speaker- after having heard countless numerous other speakers.