Alsyvox planars...prepare to sell your Magico's, YG's, Wilson's, Cessaro's. Maggie's, and all others!!

[Steve Williams]

Hi guys

Lets just stay on topic and not make accusations

 

[Zero000]

At Munich the Magico M6 room was only a few feet away from the Alsyvox room.

In my opinion the gap in performance between the two was huge. I'd be really surprised if anyone felt differently. But this is hi-fi and I hear opinions from.people I find I cannot relate to in any way, shape or form!

In fact there were loads of Magico rooms at Munich and none got close.

 

[Al M.]

At Munich the Magico M6 room was only a few feet away from the Alsyvox room.

In my opinion the gap in performance between the two was huge. I'd be really surprised if anyone felt differently. But this is hi-fi and I hear opinions from.people I find I cannot relate to in any way, shape or form!

In fact there were loads of Magico rooms at Munich and none got close.

Yes, Magico can be difficult to set up, and they are transparent to the source. In many cases alas this means crap in, crap out. I have recently heard Magico M Project speakers at a friend's house, and though he has had them for years they have never sounded so good, not even close. So it can take time. My recent encounter with those speakers impressed the hell out of me, and I found them musically incredibly engaging and enjoyable. Terrific, lifelike tonality, tremendous dynamics. Yes, many would find this unbelievable, but here it is.

But my own Reference 3A Reflector speakers also sound incomparably better in my system now than a year ago.

So no, I am not surprised at all that a bunch of hastily set-up Magico speakers in some suboptimal rooms in Munich failed to impress.

 

[Bodhi]

At Munich the Magico M6 room was only a few feet away from the Alsyvox room.

In my opinion the gap in performance between the two was huge. I'd be really surprised if anyone felt differently. But this is hi-fi and I hear opinions from.people I find I cannot relate to in any way, shape or form!

In fact there were loads of Magico rooms at Munich and none got close.

It is kind of silly comparing very large 4-panel speakers which cost €275,000 ($308kUSD) to more practical sealed box speakers which cost $172kUSD, and under show conditions at that as Al noted.

 

[Ron Resnick]

At Munich the Magico M6 room was only a few feet away from the Alsyvox room.

In my opinion the gap in performance between the two was huge. I'd be really surprised if anyone felt differently. But this is hi-fi and I hear opinions from.people I find I cannot relate to in any way, shape or form!

In fact there were loads of Magico rooms at Munich and none got close.

You and I and other planar aficionados have to adjust for the fact that we are planar aficionados — and not everybody else is. I would not be at all surprised if some people preferred the Magico M6 to the planar speaker.

 

[bonzo75]

You and I and other planar aficionados have to adjust for the fact that we are planar aficionados — and not everybody else is. I would not be at all surprised if some people preferred the Magico M6 to the planar speaker.

It's fine if the people defending Magico like Al have sufficient exposure to planars. As far as I can see the planar people have sufficient exposure to Magicos.

 

[Ron Resnick]

It's fine if the people defending Magico like Al have sufficient exposure to planars. As far as I can see the planar people have sufficient exposure to Magicos.

I think that is one step. Another step is to appreciate that people may have a predisposition to preferring, or an enduring subjective preference for, one speaker topology over another, and I think it is helpful and illuminating to recognize this fact.

 

[Bodhi]

It's fine if the people defending Magico like Al have sufficient exposure to planars. As far as I can see the planar people have sufficient exposure to Magicos.

That’s drawing a long bow. My take is there wouldn’t be any need to defend Magico, Wilson, YG et al if the title of this thread wasn’t so controversial..

 

[bonzo75]

That’s drawing a long bow. My take is there wouldn’t be any need to defend Magico, Wilson, YG et al if the title of this thread wasn’t so controversial..

I agree, the title of this thread has long since been made fun off and funny references made to it in other parts of the forum. I was referring specifically to Ron's comment. Preference happens when people know both A and B and choose one. Many times on this forum preference means someone chooses one because of not knowing the other

 

[Al M.]

You and I and other planar aficionados have to adjust for the fact that we are planar aficionados — and not everybody else is. I would not be at all surprised if some people preferred the Magico M6 to the planar speaker.

Don't worry Ron, I will prefer a well set-up planar to an insufficiently or even badly set-up Magico anytime. I would not be surprised if all the Magicos in Munich sounded comparatively lousy.

 

[Bodhi]

I agree, the title of this thread has long since been made fun off and funny references made to it in other parts of the forum. I was referring specifically to Ron's comment. Preference happens when people know both A and B and choose one. Many times on this forum preference means someone chooses one because of not knowing the other

I see where you're coming from, and agree. FWIW, I've owned several pairs of hybrid planar magnetic speakers, as well as heard Infinity IRS-V's, the big Maggies, Martin Logans and many other panel speakers. So whilst my point was to question why, according to the thread title, the loudspeaker company which is the subject of this thread is apparently superior to several other well established high end loudspeaker manufacturer's products, I have, If I wished to enter into planar vs Magico debate, sufficient ear time on both to proffer a general opinion on the matter.

 

[Zero000]

Don't worry Ron, I will prefer a well set-up planar to an insufficiently or even badly set-up Magico anytime. I would not be surprised if all the Magicos in Munich sounded comparatively lousy.

But for me it's year on year and also at different shows.

Absolute Sounds did the M6 at Windsor here in the UK and the Wilson room, also theirs, was monumentally better. And it was a mid range Wilson with ARC.

In my opinion, that is.

For me the only thing that casts a shadow of doubt was a Magico M2 room at Munich 2019 that was OKish.

I almost made Ron's planar point but didn't, because I do think there are better box speakers around. A lot of better box speakers.

Try and take this as my objective opinion and not a personal attack on any one else's.

 

[Al M.]

But for me it's year on year and also at different shows.

So what? Shows are shows are shows.

Absolute Sounds did the M6 at Windsor here in the UK and the Wilson room, also theirs, was monumentally better. And it was a mid range Wilson with ARC.

Does not surprise me. I have heard Wilson Yvettes slaughter super-expensive speakers elsewhere in the same show. Means nothing, except that the Yvettes must be pretty good speakers, given how they sounded. As I said, shows are shows. They will never be any more than that.

For me the only thing that casts a shadow of doubt was a Magico M2 room at Munich 2019 that was OKish.

Who knows, OKish might have turned great under optimal conditions. I have heard Magicos at shows where, if you would have asked if I'd be even mildly interested in that sound, I would have said never in a million years. Heck, I've heard Magicos at dealers sound absolutely atrocious.

I almost made Ron's planar point but didn't, because I do think there are better box speakers around. A lot of better box speakers.

Try and take this as my objective opinion and not a personal attack on any one else's.

You have had your experiences, and I respect that. But respectfully, I have been around the block with Magicos a few more times, with countless exposures to the sound in friend's systems, with careful set-up. Hell, I remember vividly being highly disappointed with the Q3 upon first exposure -- until after some discussions about the sound my friend tweaked the position of these newly acquired speakers a bit more. Then the speakers suddenly began to sing. Don't expect such magical transformations to happen under show conditions.

 

[christoph]

My take is there wouldn’t be any need to defend Magico, Wilson, YG et al if the title of this thread wasn’t so controversial..

In this aspects, I'm clearly with you

 

[microstrip]

That’s drawing a long bow. My take is there wouldn’t be any need to defend Magico, Wilson, YG et al if the title of this thread wasn’t so controversial..

Unfortunately the tittle has poisoned the thread and has boosted personal attacks and comments on users and other brands, not on the speakers being considered. There is a lot that can be debated on planar speakers versus box speakers without denigrating specific brands, IMHO this thread is currently specializing in criticizing people preferences, not on the gear.

There is physics associated to a planar wave leaving a planar speaker and it always sound very different from a point like box speaker. Unfortunately we have very little technical details on the Alsyvox , we can not even compare it technically with other similar planars. All that is left is saying they are the "best" ...

BTW, I own and appreciate XLF's and Soundlab A1 Px's - very different sounding and both very enjoyable speakers. I could happily live with any one of them, but currently the Soundlab's are hibernating in a dark room ...

 

[Zero000]

So what? Shows are shows are shows.



Does not surprise me. I have heard Wilson Yvettes slaughter super-expensive speakers elsewhere in the same show. Means nothing, except that the Yvettes must be pretty good speakers, given how they sounded. As I said, shows are shows. They will never be any more than that.



Who knows, OKish might have turned great under optimal conditions. I have heard Magicos at shows where, if you would have asked if I'd be even mildly interested in that sound, I would have said never in a million years. Heck, I've heard Magicos at dealers sound absolutely atrocious.



You have had your experiences, and I respect that. But respectfully, I have been around the block with Magicos a few more times, with countless exposures to the sound in friend's systems, with careful set-up. Hell, I remember vividly being highly disappointed with the Q3 upon first exposure -- until after some discussions about the sound my friend tweaked the position of these newly acquired speakers a bit more. Then the speakers suddenly began to sing. Don't expect such magical transformations to happen under show conditions.

Shows have excellent sounding rooms in many cases. For that to be missed on countless Magico setups defies the law of reasonableness. In many cases with excellent quality ancillaries.

One day, however, I may be impressed. Anything is possible

You liking them is fine by me BTW. It just appears that no matter what I don't.

 

[Al M.]

Shows have excellent sounding rooms in many cases.

Excellent? Not sure if I would often use that word to my standards when it comes to shows.

For that to be missed on countless Magico setups defies the law of reasonableness.

Not necessarily. Magicos are finicky about speaker/room interactions. Also, putting them too far apart as often happens at shows may ruin the sound, not just the soundstage. They may work far apart in some cases, but that would at least require careful tuning, unlikely to happen at a show.

You liking them is fine by me BTW. It just appears that no matter what I don't.

That's fine. But it seems I have heard them more frequently under optimized conditions than you did.

 

[Al M.]

Shows have excellent sounding rooms in many cases. For that to be missed on countless Magico setups defies the law of reasonableness. In many cases with excellent quality ancillaries.

I have heard Magico with excellent quality ancillaries sound absolutely atrocious at a dealer. Means nothing, except that set-up sucked.

 

[Zero000]

If they really are that finicky then the chances of most enthusiasts getting it right is not going to be great.

I have heard them an awful lot of times over the years BTW.

They obviously sell however or they wouldn't be in business.

 

[Al M.]

If they really are that finicky then the chances of most enthusiasts getting it right is not going to be great.

Having all the time and making all the effort in a home set-up is different. But yes, those are not speakers that you can simply drop in a room and expect instant miracles from.