American Sound, "The Absolute Nothing"

[PeterA]

Not at all, I think people want to understand it because it’s such an interesting looking piece. The marketing speak is unfortunately bordering OMA at times though. It’s like when Mike L got his Esoteric, lots of talk about how the thing worked. Let’s face it very few people on this forum have the slightest inkling of anything technical but we still find it interesting how different all these designs are.

It is hardly marketing speak. Besides the actual designer, I am one of the very few people who’ve actually heard all three American Sound turntables, directly compared two of them in my own system for a month and to the big Micro Seiki. I own one and have assembled all three. I’ve now heard this new turntable in a private system that I have visited twice.

I am sharing my listening impressions and photos and David’s videos and trying to answer some of the questions. If you think that is marketing, that’s your perspective.

David Karmeli is perfectly capable of selling these turntables without any input from me. He has a broad network and people respect his opinions and designs. I started the thread because it’s a great turntable and I thought members would be interested.

 

[Kingrex]

Sorry if I missed the spec. How long does it take to get to 33.3 speed and stabilize.

Are you supposed to stop it between sides? Are you supposed to snatch and drop the vinyl hot?

What about a platter mat?

 

[Ron Resnick]

I am not a . . . messenger for Vintage Audio Specialties, Inc. or David Karmeli as has been suggested.

I am happy for David that this ultimate American Sound turntable has become a reality! I am happy for you that your presence at the initial installation and listening session was so exciting!

It's totally fine -- there is no issue whatsoever in my mind -- but why pretend that in this thread you are not in practical effect introducing, messengering and advertising this amazing new turntable for David?

 

[Salectric]

….very few people on this forum have the slightest inkling of anything technical….

Very true!

 

[Kingsrule]

I think the opposite. I'll bet many here are of a technical inclination/background.
That's why all the pointed technical interest keep coming....

 

[cdk84]

@Ron Resnick wrote:

"I am happy for David that this ultimate American Sound turntable has become a reality! I am happy for you that your presence at the initial installation and listening session was so exciting!

It's totally fine -- there is no issue whatsoever in my mind -- but why pretend that in this thread you are not effectively introducing, messengering and marketing this amazing new turntable for David?"


With all respect due, Ron, I am confused by the conflation of introducing and messengering with *marketing*.

In my mind they are Not the same.

While this is your forum —and I remain grateful for it, and for having access to it and the knowledge shared here— in My mind, nothing Peter has said remotely approaches the realm of marketing.

First, no price has been stated.

Second, there has only been mention of the number of units intended for production; this is merely factual information, and though there are more items that could easily be mentioned,

Third, nowhere has Peter solicited inquiries for purchase nor for David’s contact information.

Without those things, how is it that Peter is marketing 'The Absoute Nothing’ turntable?

Please elaborate. Unless you subscribe unilaterally to the Heisenberg Principle, I do not happen to see it, but your perspective may bring to light something that I have missed.

I genuinely look forward to hearing your thoughts about marketing in greater detail.

Best Wishes,
David

 

[spiritofmusic]

Genuine Q...is it possible to fabricate a thin thread with no knot? Can one create a one-piece thread?

 

[rando]

The real Q is can it be done with properties equaling or exceeding current solution. As resolved by ddk.

Rubber banding is...

 

[Another Johnson]

I am happy for David that this ultimate American Sound turntable has become a reality! I am happy for you that your presence at the initial installation and listening session was so exciting!

It's totally fine -- there is no issue whatsoever in my mind -- but why pretend that in this thread you are not in practical effect introducing, messengering and advertising this amazing new turntable for David?

This strikes me as a really cynical interpretation of Peter’s intent. I don’t know Peter except through his posts here. My sense is that he appreciates his friendship with DDK and is excited to share this rather special adventure.

He does not appear to be trying to elbow his way into the main stream of audiophile commerce, or to hawk anyone’s specific wares.

 

[mtemur]

Genuine Q...is it possible to fabricate a thin thread with no knot? Can one create a one-piece thread?

Yes, it’s possible and Kondo Ginga uses one exactly as you described.

 

[bonzo75]

First, no price has been stated.

Second, there has only been mention of the number of units intended for production; this is merely factual information, and though there are more items that could easily be mentioned,

Third, nowhere has Peter solicited inquiries for purchase nor for David’s contact information.

I genuinely look forward to hearing your thoughts about marketing in greater detail.

This is not related to Peter or The AN in particular, and you could have chosen a lot of ways to defend Peter, but I just found these three marketing concepts weird.

1. First, no price has been stated - You don't have to state a price. In fact no price for luxury items is excellent marketing. Create enough curiosity for the person to call up and ask. Keep in mind the value of the TT is if you value David. Those who think Dohmann or Vertere etc or for tonearms, Schroeder is the best designer, might not value this.

2. Second, there has only been mention of the number of units intended for production; this is merely factual information, and though there are more items that could easily be mentioned - Not sure why this would change anything. Wilson or SME don't mention units marketed, except maybe for the top WAMM, SME 60 possibly. Luxury items designed to market by exclusion do, e.g. 12 to make people who want it scramble and pay all in for it. Again, that can be good marketing. Again, in exclusion items, even if the 12 of them are already sold, the value is in maintaining their value - as happened with AS 2000.

3. nowhere has Peter solicited inquiries for purchase nor for David’s contact information - Do you see other commercial brand posts marketed here always putting contact information or saying "Wow, amazing sound. Contact me if you want it"?

Again, sorry, but I find these three objections nothing to do with marketing/not marketing. Just not relevant to the topic.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Not at all, I think people want to understand it because it’s such an interesting looking piece. The marketing speak is unfortunately bordering OMA at times though. It’s like when Mike L got his Esoteric, lots of talk about how the thing worked. Let’s face it very few people on this forum have the slightest inkling of anything technical but we still find it interesting how different all these designs are.

Ironic considering how anti measurement the forum on a whole is ...!

 

[andromedaaudio]

Finally an interesting topic/ thread on WBF where people actually like a product to be shotdown by a non discussion .

The fact that WBF has been completely commercialized lately is all fine apparently .
The WBF level is really at the bottom afaic

 

[Ron Resnick]

My sense is that he appreciates his friendship with DDK and is excited to share this rather special adventure.

He does not appear to be trying to elbow his way into the main stream of audiophile commerce

I agree fully with both of these characterizations.

But I don't think they undermine my "in practical effect" comment.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I agree fully with both of these characterizations.

But I don't think they undermine my "in practical effect" comment.

Ron if anybody can be accused of forum commercialization its you
Its all you do lately , so you should be the last to point the finger afaic

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Not at all, I think people want to understand it because it’s such an interesting looking piece. The marketing speak is unfortunately bordering OMA at times though. It’s like when Mike L got his Esoteric, lots of talk about how the thing worked. Let’s face it very few people on this forum have the slightest inkling of anything technical but we still find it interesting how different all these designs are.

agree that 'The Absolute Nothing' gets our juices flowing on many levels. it's fun, fun, fun. a big WOW.

Esoteric provided very detailed renderings of the drive system, which we could all throw around, then Fremer provided factory feedback further describing the thinking and development processes. it was an open book. they had a hill to climb and needed attention. and their approach resulted in quite a few Esoteric T1's selling. and they continue to sell.

and there was genuine new thinking and new drive tech to discuss. real meat on the bones.

each manufacturer operates differently. Esoteric had no turntable chops to fall back on, just plenty of engineering history. so they had a different challenge and story to tell.

but sometimes a bit of mystery is the better way to peg the aspirational meter.

 

[Another Johnson]

I agree fully with both of these characterizations.

But I don't think they undermine my "in practical effect" comment.

We can disagree. To my ear, it is an insulting idea given what appear to be Peter’s interests and circumstances. My thought is that it would put a damper on sharing when a clear hobbyist who has no interest in representing a product for personal gain is accused of marketing when he shares.

Often people tend to project their own mindset onto the intentions of others. My mindset is that Peter is having a lot of fun being part of the DDK project and I have enjoyed his willingness to share. As usual, YMMV. Certainly by sharing he is raising awareness… but there is a difference between raising awareness for the joy of the hobby and raising awareness for personal gain, aka marketing.

 

[MRJAZZ]

It is hardly marketing speak. Besides the actual designer, I am one of the very few people who’ve actually heard all three American Sound turntables, directly compared two of them in my own system for a month and to the big Micro Seiki. I own one and have assembled all three. I’ve now heard this new turntable in a private system that I have visited twice.

I am sharing my listening impressions and photos and David’s videos and trying to answer some of the questions. If you think that is marketing, that’s your perspective.

David Karmeli is perfectly capable of selling these turntables without any input from me. He has a broad network and people respect his opinions and designs. I started the thread because it’s a great turntable and I thought members would be interested.

Out of curiosity since you have visited this private system, featuring DDK's new Statement table, twice now, you probably have a decent sense for the overall sound reproduction capability (of this system, not specifically the ABSOLUTE NOTHING Turn Table). Generally speaking, how would you compare this "system", versus your own well curated one?
I realize yours features a vintage horn speaker versus a modern , but very expensive , non horn speaker, so there's probably a sizeable difference ( not necessarily better or worse) just based on this aspect alone.

 

[Tangram]

Ag

I am happy for David that this ultimate American Sound turntable has become a reality! I am happy for you that your presence at the initial installation and listening session was so exciting!

It's totally fine -- there is no issue whatsoever in my mind -- but why pretend that in this thread you are not in practical effect introducing, messengering and advertising this amazing new turntable for David?

Agreed. I suspect at least 50% of the potential buyers of this table are WBF members. For such a high-end, esoteric piece of gear, WBF is a valuable marketing vehicle. I’m totally okay with that.

 

[adyc]

I agree fully with both of these characterizations.

But I don't think they undermine my "in practical effect" comment.

You are wearing so many hats in here. You are the owner of this forum. You are the reviewer. You are the reporter. You are the dealer. I don’t know which hat you are wearing when you accuse Peter of marketing. I can say the same for all your shows reporting have the same ‘practical effect’ of promoting your dealer business.