Analog Magik

[bazelio]

@marty use of this tool doesn't preclude using ears for final tuning. What I particularly liked was the ability to determine, empirically, the interrelated nature of each parameter and the extent of these relationships. It means sweeping through *all* test tracks repeatedly, but it's there for the taking of you've got the time. In general, VTA was the one parameter I relied on tuning by ear the most. I'm embarrassed to say I was a couple full revolutions too high on the 4Point previously. I had to readjust the tonearm cueing lifter after dropping the VTA this much!

@Stereopal - thanks for dropping in!

 

[Vienna]

@marty use of this tool doesn't preclude using ears for final tuning. What I particularly liked was the ability to determine, empirically, the interrelated nature of each parameter and the extent of these relationships. It means sweeping through *all* test tracks repeatedly, but it's there for the taking of you've got the time. In general, VTA was the one parameter I relied on tuning by ear the most. I'm embarrassed to say I was a couple full revolutions too high on the 4Point previously. I had to readjust the tonearm lifter after dropping the VTA this much!

@Stereopal - thanks for dropping in!

Dear Brian,

couple of full VTA revolutions has altered the geometry of your cartridge.
some days ago, on dialing my Lyra, I had this experience.
in detail, I am using the Smart Tractor for the cartridge basic alignment.
Then by using the AM I am fine tuning the alignment. on my efforts to increase the channel separation and minimize VTA IMD numbers I had to turn the Kuzma VTA dial about 1.5 full rev. I got better numbers but they were lasting only for short, by going back to smart tractor the stylus was not anymore landing in the Baerwald hole but away.

I had to go all over gain the process in order to reach the best possible results without altering the geometry.

 

[bazelio]

Dear Brian,

couple of full VTA revolutions has altered the geometry of your cartridge.
some days ago, on dialing my Lyra, I had this experience.
in detail, I am using the Smart Tractor for the cartridge basic alignment.
Then by using the AM I am fine tuning the alignment. on my efforts to increase the channel separation and minimize VTA IMD numbers I had to turn the Kuzma VTA dial about 1.5 full rev. I got better numbers however by going back to smart tractor the stylus was not anymore landing in the Baerwald hole but away.

I had to go all over gain the process in order to reach the best possible results without altering the geometry.

Makes sense. I did the same! I also use the smart tractor. That's another tool I am glad to own. Some time ago I also found a slight disagreement between the Kuzma pivot to spindle distance using the 4point jig and the smart tractor gauge. I ended up changing the pivot to spindle distance so it precisely met the Kuzma spec as measured by the smart tractor.

 

[Vienna]

Makes sense. I did the same! I also use the smart tractor. That's another tool I am glad to own. Some time ago I also found a slight disagreeing between the Kuzma pivot to spindle distance using the 4point jig and the smart tractor gauge. I ended up changing the pivot to spindle distance so it precisely met the Kuzma spec as measured by the smart tractor.

Two years ago (With different Tonearm) I had to address this issue to the manufacturer of the Smart Tractor, because I had the same issue and I thought that the issue was this tool.
Dietrich patiently went through and shown me that I was measuring the P2S distance having selected the tangential curve on my tractor and not on the dedicated P2S line.

 

[bazelio]

Yes, but that wasn't my issue. I think using the Kuzma jig, there is some wiggle room on the arm pivot. It is possible to land slightly off, or at least it is my experience. With the smart tractor, there is nothing pulling on that arm pivot that can affect the setting. So it seems to me a better method. I was off slightly using the jig, but not my much.

 

[Vienna]

My concern with the analogue Magik is the antiskating.

if I will follow the AM method I am getting 0.17% at the beginning of the antiskating track which at the end is 0.33%. With these settings the VTA IMD is 1,70 for the left channel and 1,90 for the right channel.

however at the antiskating track I can see the cantilever slightly deflected to the right.

if I will follow the Carr’s advise and try to keep the cantilever totally straight through out the Lp, I am ending with higher antiskating setting and by checking the VTA IMD with AM the numbers are 2.4 for the left channel and 3.5 for the right channel Which at the end of the track they are 3.5 for the left and 4.6 for the right channel.

 

[bazelio]

Interesting. I didn't find much variance across a fairly wide range of anti-skating settings. I could see the numbers fall and then again increase as I went too far. I ended with something like 0.22 at the beginning and 0.5 at the end of the track. VTA was the most askew. I started with nearly 5% (!) and brought it below 2% left and right. I think 1.9% and 1.7%. The numbers decreased with further reduction of VTA, but in looking at the cantilever and stylus through a loupe, the actual angle was approaching vertical - maybe 90 degrees or even slightly less! I settled at the above VTA numbers since they were lower than 2% and the visual inspection of the stylus still looked sane, i.e. closer to 91 or so degrees.

 

[bazelio]

@Vienna have you tried adjusting zenith in order to affect VTA numbers? In another conversation offline, I'm finding out that a small twist to change zenith can easily cut the VTA numbers in half! I haven't even tried this yet. The only time I touched zenith today was when I reset the overhang.

 

[Vienna]

I always do Bryan, to-date I didn’t have the luck to get the zenith perfect cartridge.
However This slight twist can lead to endless hours of adjusting

 

[bazelio]

I always do Bryan, to-date I didn’t have the luck to get the zenith perfect cartridge

So, no change to zenith could improve your VTA numbers from 3.5 and 4.6?

Edit: I understand the comment about it leading to endless hours of adjusting!

 

[Vienna]

At the point i am currently at, with decrease of A/S the IMD will fall below 2% but i see a slight deflection of the cantilever to the right, at the last track. if i will play with the zenith the IMD will increase rapidly and the channel separation numbers are being reduced too.

 

[Vienna]

At the point i am currently at, with decrease of A/S the IMD will fall below 2% but i see a slight deflection of the cantilever to the right, at the last track. if i will play with the zenith the IMD will increase rapidly and the channel separation numbers are being reduced too.

Its not my intention to add another variable, but if You will twist slightly the Tonearm’s cable securing fitting to the right or left you will see that this is also affecting the measurements.

 

[bazelio]

Its not my intention to add another variable, but if You will twist slightly the Tonearm’s cable securing fitting to the right or left you will see that this is also affecting the measurements.

Oy vey! That is interesting, though. The more anecdotal information, the better.

 

[tima]

I think using the Kuzma jig, there is some wiggle room on the arm pivot. It is possible to land slightly off, or at least it is my experience.

I'm not sure what you mean by wiggle room in the arm pivot.

I spent some frustrating time trying to do alignment when I got my first 4Point and used its P2S. When the arm is snugged up tight to the back end of the 4Point P2S guage, the distance is incorrect - and not by a small amount. After pulling out my UNI-P2S tool it confirmed the Kuzma P2S was off. Dietrich Brakemeier's tools (UNI-Pro kit & SmartTractor) are the best I've found.


UNI-P2S with a Tri-Planar

 

[tima]

Its not my intention to add another variable, but if You will twist slightly the Tonearm’s cable securing fitting to the right or left you will see that this is also affecting the measurements.

I recall Franc mentioning this. The tonearm wire going into the cable should be straight up. And it is possible to rotate cable 360 degress one way or the other before inserting into securing pin to avoid 'torgue' from the wire affecting AS. That is actually how VPI (who doesn't believe in AS) had users adjusting AS for many years!

 

[bazelio]

I'm not sure what you mean by wiggle room in the arm pivot.

I spent some frustrating time trying to do alignment when I got my first 4Point and used its P2S. When the arm is snugged up tight to the back end of the 4Point P2S guage, the distance is incorrect - and not by a small amount.

When it's pulled up snug, it pulls the cylindrical housing forward and the distance will be incorrect. You can compensate by not pulling it quite snug but that wiggle room has a margin of error. I get it close with the jig and then nail it with the smart tractor. Franc should really mention this in the manual, if he doesn't.

 

[Vienna]

It seems that the small tonearm loop is applying some tension to the tonearm

I recall Franc mentioning this. The tonearm wire going into the cable should be straight up. And it is possible to rotate cable 360 degress one way or the other before inserting into securing pin to avoid 'torgue' from the wire affecting AS. That is actually how VPI (who doesn't believe in AS) had users adjusting AS for many years!

Thank you Tim
i discovered it the hard way

 

[bazelio]

I didn't expect this, either. I'm glad we had this conversation.

 

[bazelio]

I decided to change alignment from Loefgren B to Loefgren A this evening. While at it, I pulled out the Kuzma P2S jig, reset the arm, and then measured it with the Smart Tractor P2S. The result I achieved was about 263.7mm. So using the Smart Tractor, I reset it again to 264mm on the money.

Anyhow, after changing cart alignment from Loefgren to Baerwald (so moving overhang and visually resetting zenith), I ran through Analog Magik again this evening. Overall, I do not see much change from yesterday's measurements. However, there are a couple interesting outliers:

1. VTA is a little worse today at 2.4 left and 3.1 right.
2. 7 kHz VTF is worse today at 1.3 left and 3.4 right.

The right channel bias is interesting, and these are the only two measurements showing it. Azimuth, and anti-skate are very good and well balanced across channels. Even the low frequency VTF track is fairly balanced at 0.41 left and 0.44 right.

I'm thinking tomorrow night I'll play with Zenith and see what happens. My first thought is to twist the cart cantilever slightly away from the right channel, but I don't know if that's the correct instinct or not. The only way to know is to try it and see, I suppose. It sure looks good as is in the Smart Tractor magnifier, though.

 

[Vienna]

Hahaha! You are not alone Bryan
since yesterday evening I am on it again.
I have some interested notes which i will post later.
By the way i have just noticed how much smoother is my new Phoenix rim drive the vibration has dramatically decreased. Used to be 2.70% and now below 2%