Analog Magik

Marcus

Member Sponsor
Oct 5, 2012
559
552
1,155
Maybe there’s something about these calibration procedures but how do you explain the good old analogue oscilloscope confirmed Adjust+ measurements not Analog Magik’s?
 
  • Like
Reactions: tima

bazelio

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
2,493
1,745
345
California
What was cartridge voltage output, the gain of the phono stage used, and the noise floor of the scope?

In this case the more likely answer is that Analog Magik is making assumptions in software that aren't correct, which are probably related to the sound card or the calibration of the sound card in use. I'd still like to know which sound card was used and if/how it was calibrated.
 

Marcus

Member Sponsor
Oct 5, 2012
559
552
1,155
What was cartridge voltage output, the gain of the phono stage used, and the noise floor of the scope?
Don’t think this is relevant in the context of diametrically opposite results between two measuring methods but as I said, will try get more info and will come back if I get any relevant or at least interesting information. Was hoping someone else also did such comparisons...
 
  • Like
Reactions: leftside

bazelio

Well-Known Member
Sep 26, 2016
2,493
1,745
345
California
It may or may not be relevant, but it can be difficult to measure very small voltages accurately with old analog scopes. The induced crosstalk signal is at a low RMS voltage. In general, I'm simply interested in trying to root cause the problem here and understanding the variables in play only helps. There are two broad categories of possibility: user error and tool error. I'd like to get Analog Magik myself but don't really want to spend money on it while this issue is not understood.
 
  • Like
Reactions: leftside

leftside

Well-Known Member
Jan 22, 2018
173
211
150
Probably not but I wouldn’t feel comfortable knowing all others easily achieve 33dB.

i don't think a single cart has ever measured that high with AM. As mentioned earlier, it's rare to see a cart measure over 30 with AM, even though Vienna has seen an AM measurement of over 31 with some of his carts. I'm quite confident my Benz is fine, especially as it came back from Soundsmith fairly recently.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Marcus and bazelio

leftside

Well-Known Member
Jan 22, 2018
173
211
150
I emailed Richard Mak and let him know about this thread. Perhaps he will be kind enough to comment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bazelio

Marcus

Member Sponsor
Oct 5, 2012
559
552
1,155
Sorry, didn’t see you measured with the AM. I absolutely believe results you got were as you say, but with the Adjust+ they are closer to some manufactures specifications. This is not important IMO. Different measurement methods, different results, nothing new. Obviously AM is different from Adjust+ also in this.

This is a photo of a tech spec you get with the LP-S. Have seen only one (among many) that has achieved 35dB...
DBB39D96-9A7B-44CF-8F21-73505C6702FC.jpeg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: leftside

tony22

Well-Known Member
Nov 4, 2019
558
239
133
62
On Adjust+ I remember getting in the range of 35 dB (IIRC actually a bit better) on my LP-S.
 

edwyun

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2019
38
32
83
44
My A+ and AM are not that much different. The A+ measurements and graph seem to be inconclusive as to phase so I set Azimuth to match levels as close as possible and lowest mono differential (eg -2 in the chart below)

20200216_152824.jpg
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: bazelio

edwyun

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2019
38
32
83
44
On AM, the channel difference seems greater than on A+, all the time. Perhaps due to differences in software algorithms. These get you close but still need to cinfirm by ear.

20200216_164621.jpg 20200216_164819.jpg
 

leftside

Well-Known Member
Jan 22, 2018
173
211
150

edwyun

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2019
38
32
83
44
If you adjust the azimuth to get a closer/better reading with AM does the sound improve?

In a prior setup (VPI Scout 2 with Dyna XX2.2) yes, AM was very helpful to adjust for improved sound. I am installing the Dyna on my VPI Prime and getting there.
 

leftside

Well-Known Member
Jan 22, 2018
173
211
150
In a prior setup (VPI Scout 2 with Dyna XX2.2) yes, AM was very helpful to adjust for improved sound. I am installing the Dyna on my VPI Prime and getting there.
I found the same. It's a journey :) You are on a very similar path to me. I started out with a ScoutMaster/Dynavector and then slowly migrated/upgraded to a Prime Signature/Benz. I find AM invaluable now whenever I change anything with the setup.
 

edwyun

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2019
38
32
83
44
Agreed. A+ and AM are great tools. Even helped "see" and remedy the vibration/hum from the 300 rpm motor pods. The 600 rpm motor pod is actually quieter. Go figure.
 

edwyun

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2019
38
32
83
44
And just for comparison, here is the same Dyna XX2.2 on the Scout 2 when it was dialied in. I wouldnt worry too much about actual numbers.

03 Left Azimuth small042419.jpg 04 Right Azimuth small042419.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: bazelio

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 3, 2014
5,778
6,820
1,400
the Upper Midwest
running the same cartridge with the same settings,each of the 33.33 and 45 rpm test vinyls will give me different results as you will see in the attached photos

Hmmm ... interesting experiment. I wonder how many people with AM have done that comparison. It would make me want to try a third test record.

Did Richard Mak have any comment on those differences?
 

Vienna

VIP/Donor
Hmmm ... interesting experiment. I wonder how many people with AM have done that comparison. It would make me want to try a third test record.

Did Richard Mak have any comment on those differences?

Dear Tim

Richard told me that its normal and expected that 45rpm will yield better results comparing to the 33rpm.
What he cannot explain is the reason of obtaining different results by two different 33rpm or 45rpm test vinyls of AM.
 

edwyun

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2019
38
32
83
44
Dear Tim

Richard told me that its normal and expected that 45rpm will yield better results comparing to the 33rpm.
What he cannot explain is the reason of obtaining different results by two different 33rpm or 45rpm test vinyls of AM.

On AM, I get different readings on 33 versus 45 (better) as well. Probably due to the software algorithms. Perhaps it will be addressed in version 2 (when it cones out).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vienna

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing