Nice looking amp, Justin. Look forward to reading about how it sounds.
Another Apogee thread? You bet!
- Thread starter spiritofmusic
- Start date
Nice looking amp, Justin. Look forward to reading about how it sounds.
Maybe should change your handle to L211 (we already have LL21, but L211 can show us your rankings)
I'd be hesitant to say that. The two beasties are completely different.
Ked doesn't reckon the 211s have enough power but I reckon that's complete BS within normal listening levels.
However there's no question it beats the 211s on a number of parameters.
Given how emotional you are regarding the 211 we will take that as Luxman wins buy technical knock out
So after trying about 30 amps on both incarnations of Apogee Duettas I have owned, I realised I have never tried a very high output (for) class A solid state amp. I've tried £12K of Merrill class D monos (totally dreadful, really unpleasant), and a £30K Rowland 301 class D (actually OKish, a while back now, plenty of power, but nothing special).
About the most expensive valve option was actually Ked's Ayon Orthos II with 20 KT150s (around £20K). I actually use some Austria Analog 211 based monos that would cost around £10K now if you could still buy them.
Many of the items I have tried have been brought around during bake offs, or just by people visitng, though I have bought a few myself in the usual audiophile manner. Buy it, try it and sell it on. Though I do this with a difference. Generally, I never sell first - I buy, decide if I like it better, and if not pass it on.
I am not emphatically obsessive, though. And I have been into this hobby since I was about 15 (I'm now in my 50s). I have seen quite a bit of kit come and go but by some people's standards for the time period in question I have been pretty tame. That said I have always had hi-fi a s a hobby and have been going to shows for years, and have heard the world's best kit on many occasions, albeit generally under show conditions. I have also heard other enthusiasts systems mainly via hi-fi forums.
The best solid state options have been the Parasound A21 (actually about 8 Watts class A) using an EAR 868PL valve pre, then later a better sounding Cayin C-100 valve pre (a modified SC-10). The other good option has been some Accuphase monos from 1975. Both these options can supply 400-500 Watts into 4 Ohms.
The Parasound is essentially a cheap John Curl of Levinson fame design. Made abroad to keep costs low. It is a great Duetta driver but only when paired with a decent valve pre. With an Air Tight passive pre it wasn't OK, really. It needed a valve preamp to make it engaging enough, otherwise it was just too sterile. I find this to be true of any solid state power amp on Duettas. Including the Luxman in question today.
The only other Luxman I have owned was a 1980s Luxman L-435 integrated, which I tried on the Duettas. Not good. But it was OK powering some small speakers in a second system, mainly used for watching the television. I just bought it for fun off ebay, Germany. Only sold it relatively recently.
So why did I decide to try the Luxman M-800a? Well, when it came out I always thought it looked interesting. I saw one at a show and was super impressed with the casework. Nice, big, solid lump with a fantastically finished aluminium top plate. "I bet that's awesome", I thought. Unfortunately, it wasn't plugged into anything.
That said, I have heard Luxman integrateds and the M-900u at shows. Always thought they sounded pretty decent.
Additonally, Luxman made a set of $48,000 monos that actually knock out less class A than the M-800a. Luxman marketed the M-800a as a 60 Watt amp. Well, that's true, but it's 60 Watts class A into 8 Ohms. Better still, it's 120 Watts class A into 4 Ohms. Or 280 Watts class A/B into 4 Ohms. And it keeps on delivering even more as the impedance drops. See the Stereophile lab report for more info.
The newer M-900u does nothing of the sort. Indeed, the M-800a is supposed to be the more 'musical' option. And I think it is much more interesting given the above, with a lot more class A power available.
So essentially, I know from the Accuphase power meters that 75 Watts produces peaks of around 93DB via the Duettas. That is faily loud. So I know full well that for nearly all its driving life, the Luxman will be driving the Duettas fully in class A. Good stuff, I reckon. Very few amps out there that will do that at reasonable cost.
Kedar was saying it didn't have enough power before I bought it, but I am far more intelligent than the Kedster and have far better ears (huge grin on my face as I type).
In practise, who was right? Me, of course
. The Luxman sounds more competent and relaxed driving Duettas than any other solid state device I have come across.
The Luxman really is extrodinary. I haven't ever encountered an amp on Duettas that sounds as homogenous as this does. No particular part of the frequency spectrum sounds emphasised. The music just flows out as a cohesive whole.
Compared to a Parasound A21, that literally forces sound out at you with strength, speed and power, you initally think the Luxman is probably slow. One of the aspects of a highly rigid planar magnetic loudspeaker like my current Duettas is speed. There is very little available at any price that can match them for perceived speed. They seem almost instantaneous. What the Luxman does is follow the speed of the input. What the Parasound appeared to do is emphasise that speed, making things that really weren't that quick sound quicker than they were.
You notice this speed with tracks that contain input that really is quick. You just sit there thinking "f^&* me, that really was seriously quick!". But it is quick and relatively relaxed compared to an A21, that on Duettas will try an re-arrange your mind about the meaning of the word "onslaught" with appropriate material.
Compared to the first monoblocks that Accuphase ever made, the M-60s, then the Luxman has a lot more refinement on hand. The Accuphase push sound out in a very lively, raw fashion. Leading edges are emphasised. It's raw, and oddly it contains some of the traits many would feel corresponds to the flaws of early digital, but it is extremely exciting on the right material. Rubbsh on classical I would say, but then I would never use my speakers as a classical music lover. I'd use some speakers with foregiveness and colouration, and a thicker mid band like an Audio Note set up of some description, or a pair of restored vintage Tannoys. Or maybe even some horns. Mainly because a large amount of classical recordings really are not that good. Well, at least I feel that way surfing it on TIDAL. I never really listen to it as a rule.
Part of the trouble but also an extreme benefit with the Apogee MRT (mid range/treble ribbon driver) is its ability to tell the truth. It is an analytical driver of the highest proportions. It absolutely will tell you what is going on with the ability of a forensic audio microscope. And that's where the Luxman really comes up trumps.
The leading edge highlight of the Accuphase M-60s simply is not present with the Luxman. That's not to say edgy recordings won't sound edgy. They still will. But where edginess it present with the Accuphase and other solid state amps, it is not present with the Luxman.
Is that a trait of the Luxman? Is it genuinely slightly soft? Or are most other solid state amps just plain f&%^ed? Given the match with my speakers, I like to believe the later. It suits the speakers very well.
Older people will remember the Jap integrated amps of the 70s and 80s and their dubious sound quality. I believe many will factor this into thinking that is what amps from Japan still sound like. If you have that bias, and if you do I believe those reading this will know what I am talking about, then nothing could be further from the truth with this Luxman.
What makes me smile quite a bit is watching Kenrick Sound videos on YouTube. They are a specialist JBL refurbisher in Japan who make videos of a lot of the kit they install. It seems that almost all get delivered to McIntosh amp owners.
That in some ways I find very sad. Killer domestic amps like the Luxman around and they are succumbing to what is probably a relatively expensive import. That said maybe there is a synergy between the two. Who knows...
I actually think the Fremer review of the M-800a is accurate and describes the unit well. Check it out here: https://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/1108lux/index.html.
So does the Luxman sound like a valve amp? No, not really, at least not one I have come across. More later, there's more I want to say, but that's way more than most will ever read anyway I suspect!
About the most expensive valve option was actually Ked's Ayon Orthos II with 20 KT150s (around £20K). I actually use some Austria Analog 211 based monos that would cost around £10K now if you could still buy them.
Many of the items I have tried have been brought around during bake offs, or just by people visitng, though I have bought a few myself in the usual audiophile manner. Buy it, try it and sell it on. Though I do this with a difference. Generally, I never sell first - I buy, decide if I like it better, and if not pass it on.
I am not emphatically obsessive, though. And I have been into this hobby since I was about 15 (I'm now in my 50s). I have seen quite a bit of kit come and go but by some people's standards for the time period in question I have been pretty tame. That said I have always had hi-fi a s a hobby and have been going to shows for years, and have heard the world's best kit on many occasions, albeit generally under show conditions. I have also heard other enthusiasts systems mainly via hi-fi forums.
The best solid state options have been the Parasound A21 (actually about 8 Watts class A) using an EAR 868PL valve pre, then later a better sounding Cayin C-100 valve pre (a modified SC-10). The other good option has been some Accuphase monos from 1975. Both these options can supply 400-500 Watts into 4 Ohms.
The Parasound is essentially a cheap John Curl of Levinson fame design. Made abroad to keep costs low. It is a great Duetta driver but only when paired with a decent valve pre. With an Air Tight passive pre it wasn't OK, really. It needed a valve preamp to make it engaging enough, otherwise it was just too sterile. I find this to be true of any solid state power amp on Duettas. Including the Luxman in question today.
The only other Luxman I have owned was a 1980s Luxman L-435 integrated, which I tried on the Duettas. Not good. But it was OK powering some small speakers in a second system, mainly used for watching the television. I just bought it for fun off ebay, Germany. Only sold it relatively recently.
So why did I decide to try the Luxman M-800a? Well, when it came out I always thought it looked interesting. I saw one at a show and was super impressed with the casework. Nice, big, solid lump with a fantastically finished aluminium top plate. "I bet that's awesome", I thought. Unfortunately, it wasn't plugged into anything.
That said, I have heard Luxman integrateds and the M-900u at shows. Always thought they sounded pretty decent.
Additonally, Luxman made a set of $48,000 monos that actually knock out less class A than the M-800a. Luxman marketed the M-800a as a 60 Watt amp. Well, that's true, but it's 60 Watts class A into 8 Ohms. Better still, it's 120 Watts class A into 4 Ohms. Or 280 Watts class A/B into 4 Ohms. And it keeps on delivering even more as the impedance drops. See the Stereophile lab report for more info.
The newer M-900u does nothing of the sort. Indeed, the M-800a is supposed to be the more 'musical' option. And I think it is much more interesting given the above, with a lot more class A power available.
So essentially, I know from the Accuphase power meters that 75 Watts produces peaks of around 93DB via the Duettas. That is faily loud. So I know full well that for nearly all its driving life, the Luxman will be driving the Duettas fully in class A. Good stuff, I reckon. Very few amps out there that will do that at reasonable cost.
Kedar was saying it didn't have enough power before I bought it, but I am far more intelligent than the Kedster and have far better ears (huge grin on my face as I type).
In practise, who was right? Me, of course
. The Luxman sounds more competent and relaxed driving Duettas than any other solid state device I have come across.The Luxman really is extrodinary. I haven't ever encountered an amp on Duettas that sounds as homogenous as this does. No particular part of the frequency spectrum sounds emphasised. The music just flows out as a cohesive whole.
Compared to a Parasound A21, that literally forces sound out at you with strength, speed and power, you initally think the Luxman is probably slow. One of the aspects of a highly rigid planar magnetic loudspeaker like my current Duettas is speed. There is very little available at any price that can match them for perceived speed. They seem almost instantaneous. What the Luxman does is follow the speed of the input. What the Parasound appeared to do is emphasise that speed, making things that really weren't that quick sound quicker than they were.
You notice this speed with tracks that contain input that really is quick. You just sit there thinking "f^&* me, that really was seriously quick!". But it is quick and relatively relaxed compared to an A21, that on Duettas will try an re-arrange your mind about the meaning of the word "onslaught" with appropriate material.
Compared to the first monoblocks that Accuphase ever made, the M-60s, then the Luxman has a lot more refinement on hand. The Accuphase push sound out in a very lively, raw fashion. Leading edges are emphasised. It's raw, and oddly it contains some of the traits many would feel corresponds to the flaws of early digital, but it is extremely exciting on the right material. Rubbsh on classical I would say, but then I would never use my speakers as a classical music lover. I'd use some speakers with foregiveness and colouration, and a thicker mid band like an Audio Note set up of some description, or a pair of restored vintage Tannoys. Or maybe even some horns. Mainly because a large amount of classical recordings really are not that good. Well, at least I feel that way surfing it on TIDAL. I never really listen to it as a rule.
Part of the trouble but also an extreme benefit with the Apogee MRT (mid range/treble ribbon driver) is its ability to tell the truth. It is an analytical driver of the highest proportions. It absolutely will tell you what is going on with the ability of a forensic audio microscope. And that's where the Luxman really comes up trumps.
The leading edge highlight of the Accuphase M-60s simply is not present with the Luxman. That's not to say edgy recordings won't sound edgy. They still will. But where edginess it present with the Accuphase and other solid state amps, it is not present with the Luxman.
Is that a trait of the Luxman? Is it genuinely slightly soft? Or are most other solid state amps just plain f&%^ed? Given the match with my speakers, I like to believe the later. It suits the speakers very well.
Older people will remember the Jap integrated amps of the 70s and 80s and their dubious sound quality. I believe many will factor this into thinking that is what amps from Japan still sound like. If you have that bias, and if you do I believe those reading this will know what I am talking about, then nothing could be further from the truth with this Luxman.
What makes me smile quite a bit is watching Kenrick Sound videos on YouTube. They are a specialist JBL refurbisher in Japan who make videos of a lot of the kit they install. It seems that almost all get delivered to McIntosh amp owners.
That in some ways I find very sad. Killer domestic amps like the Luxman around and they are succumbing to what is probably a relatively expensive import. That said maybe there is a synergy between the two. Who knows...
I actually think the Fremer review of the M-800a is accurate and describes the unit well. Check it out here: https://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/1108lux/index.html.
So does the Luxman sound like a valve amp? No, not really, at least not one I have come across. More later, there's more I want to say, but that's way more than most will ever read anyway I suspect!
Last edited:
Sorry you need to up your Luxman review to match one written two and a half years ago
http://zero-distortion.org/yg-hailey/
http://zero-distortion.org/yg-hailey/
Battle of the reviewers
Peter "Wankergate" Breuniger versus Mikey "don't bust that stylus" Fremer?
No, Bonzo versus User211.
Peter "Wankergate" Breuniger versus Mikey "don't bust that stylus" Fremer?
No, Bonzo versus User211.
Hey I haven't finished.
I reckon I can flesh it out Marc styleeeee for another ZuManChu 3,928 posts!
(wink).Justin, you just leave the 3,928 posts to those who have something to say LOL.Hey I haven't finished.
I reckon I can flesh it out Marc styleeeee for another ZuManChu 3,928 posts!
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