Apogee Diva with Infinite Baffle

[rugyboogie]

How old are the mark Levinson amps ? When was the las time they were re caped ? As I own the ml33 Amps I found a big improvement after I changed all the caps inside. Some 128 pcs on both amps. yes a very big job but a big payoff in the end.

Hi Al
The amps had a full check up done in 2019. Have seen copies of the work which was done by George Mayer. George was given carte blanche $$$ by owner as he wanted to be 100% sure that everything would as or better than new.
Had to recap my 33s and 33h, ML/ Madrigal had some problems with QC if I recall correctly.

You can also buy two lamm hybrids and biamp

With the Canuck Buck losing almost 15% in the last little bit, too spendy at this moment.
Have a lot big ticket items to finish on my Island build this year, so I need to show some restraint......
Lost out on a pair last Oct on Agon, I was to slow to act.
At home I do have 240V with a 60amp breaker for my old ML 33.

No problem. This might help a bit more.

The Parasound A21 is one control freak of an amp on Duettas. A Porsche of a performer. When I first heard it playing loud I was astonished. Really. Incredible dynamics and sense of power.

But the flip side to that amp on Duettas is it is relentless. A bit too much to take for everyday long listening sessions. After a while you just sit there and think "I am being overwhelmed here - relax for Christ's sake - take it easy". There was also a feeling that the bass was too tight/unnatural. My 211 monoblocks did bass in a more pleasing manner - it just sounded more natural.

The A21 tries to be accurate and has no tonal embellishments. But for the money I still think it is a killer amp. I'd love to hear the JCs out of curiosity.

The Luxman M-800A is a lovely sounding amp, especially with the matching C-800F preamp. It's relaxed, and sounds very natural, something so few solid state amps seem to be able to achieve. Read the Fremer review on Stereophile. He loved the power amp and wasn't so impressed with the preamp, but I think it is a great match for Apogees. One thing that can happen with Apogees is a sense of hyper-detailing i.e. a sense you are getting bombarded with too much information. With that Lux combo you never get the sense of that happening. And that for me is a top accolade when paired with

Duettas.

Interesting on the Parasound as JC had a big hand in their design. JC 1can be had for not too much coin either. Read about their JC-5 and read a Positive Feedback review on the new JC-1+ (positive review) and Stereophile will have their review in June or July I believe. Again a JC design.
The Luxman has me interested but are very rare here in Canada and the US let alone have two of them.

Thanks again to all that have chimed in.

 

[Zero000]

The Luxman has me interested but are very rare here in Canada and the US let alone have two of them.

Yup it also seems to be quite pricey in the states compared to Europe when you do find it on Audiogon etc.

 

[spiritofmusic]

No problem. This might help a bit more.

The Parasound A21 is one control freak of an amp on Duettas. A Porsche of a performer. When I first heard it playing loud I was astonished. Really. Incredible dynamics and sense of power.

But the flip side to that amp on Duettas is it is relentless. A bit too much to take for everyday long listening sessions. After a while you just sit there and think "I am being overwhelmed here - relax for Christ's sake - take it easy". There was also a feeling that the bass was too tight/unnatural. My 211 monoblocks did bass in a more pleasing manner - it just sounded more natural.

The A21 tries to be accurate and has no tonal embellishments. But for the money I still think it is a killer amp. I'd love to hear the JCs out of curiosity.

The Luxman M-800A is a lovely sounding amp, especially with the matching C-800F preamp. It's relaxed, and sounds very natural, something so few solid state amps seem to be able to achieve. Read the Fremer review on Stereophile. He loved the power amp and wasn't so impressed with the preamp, but I think it is a great match for Apogees. One thing that can happen with Apogees is a sense of hyper-detailing i.e. a sense you are getting bombarded with too much information. With that Lux combo you never get the sense of that happening. And that for me is a top accolade when paired with Duettas.

Justin, I have zero idea why you felt the need to move away from those 211s on the Duettas. I might have only listened to yr system for a grand total of not more than 30 mins, but there was total magic and zero stress in that sound. If you've swapped to something that superficially presents "more" bass or "bigger" staging, but ends up more relentless and fatigueing, that's a red flag for me.

 

[Zero000]

Justin, I have zero idea why you felt the need to move away from those 211s on the Duettas. I might have only listened to yr system for a grand total of not more than 30 mins, but there was total magic and zero stress in that sound. If you've swapped to something that superficially presents "more" bass or "bigger" staging, but ends up more relentless and fatigueing, that's a red flag for me.

The Parasound is history - sold way before you came round. The Luxman combo - well, you just have to hear it. It IS better than the 211s. I am sure you would agree if you came round again.

I think you spent a couple of hours listening BTW. Certainly not 30 minutes!

Oh I bought a projector BTW - Chiq A5U and 100 inch ALR screen. The Vava just isn't available in the UK, and the Chiq is probably a smidge better.

 

[bonzo75]

To all audiophiles who run Apogees and similar with SETs... Happy mother's day.

 

[Tubedoctor]

These post let me remembered back in the 80"s when i meet Jason Bloom at Sound by Singer in New York. At this time i owned a pair of Divas with Krell amps. Jason told me that he uses Classe Audio with the Divas. Back home i tried and changed to Classe. Funny thing i meet a friend of Jason who had a pair of Duettas driven by Kebschull 35/70 tube and it worked!

 

[cjfrbw]

To all audiophiles who run Apogees and similar with SETs... Happy mother's day.

Because only a mother could love Apogees with SET?

 

[spiritofmusic]

I think Ked is saying she'll forgive her misled son anything. Whereas he'll probably be the stern father, telling his son the harsh truth about the world.

 

[bonzo75]

Polonius

 

[spiritofmusic]

No Ked, I've gone to Polonius, can't find any reference to Will S mentioning planars. Are you sure about this?

 

[cjfrbw]

Transmitting triode SET and Apogee Stage with active crossover was one of my more successful aberrations. Waspish, peckish audiophiles seemed to really like the combo.

 

[Zero000]

These post let me remembered back in the 80"s when i meet Jason Bloom at Sound by Singer in New York. At this time i owned a pair of Divas with Krell amps. Jason told me that he uses Classe Audio with the Divas. Back home i tried and changed to Classe. Funny thing i meet a friend of Jason who had a pair of Duettas driven by Kebschull 35/70 tube and it worked!

Well I tried a 35 Watt World Audio Design kit valve amp on Duettas and it didn't.

Some people don't like volume I guess.

Decent 100 Watt + valve amps will work some much better than others. The problem comes when you start getting close to the Duetta volume limitations and when you get close to that dumping half a Kilowatt into them is easy.

The Kapton/foil will only stretch so much before any amp starts to have to deliver gob loads of power.

 

[Solypsa]

Transmitting triode SET and Apogee Stage with active crossover was one of my more successful aberrations. Waspish, peckish audiophiles seemed to really like the combo.

Dude that made me laugh. Thanks for that

 

[Alrainbow]

Hi Al
The amps had a full check up done in 2019. Have seen copies of the work which was done by George Mayer. George was given carte blanche $$$ by owner as he wanted to be 100% sure that everything would as or better than new.
Had to recap my 33s and 33h, ML/ Madrigal had some problems with QC if I recall correctly.



With the Canuck Buck losing almost 15% in the last little bit, too spendy at this moment.
Have a lot big ticket items to finish on my Island build this year, so I need to show some restraint......
Lost out on a pair last Oct on Agon, I was to slow to act.
At home I do have 240V with a 60amp breaker for my old ML 33.


Interesting on the Parasound as JC had a big hand in their design. JC 1can be had for not too much coin either. Read about their JC-5 and read a Positive Feedback review on the new JC-1+ (positive review) and Stereophile will have their review in June or July I believe. Again a JC design.
The Luxman has me interested but are very rare here in Canada and the US let alone have two of them.

Thanks again to all that have chimed in.

The 36 driver and regulator caps are no longer in production. I had to special order 100 pc min to get them. This alone cost me 2 k. then the main caps 24 needed were also no longer made but only 36 min order. all in caps alone were over 3k. and this left me doing all the labor. Each amp weighs about 380 pounds. I used an engine platform lift to raise each amp to work. each wing alone weighed about 75 pounds. about 128 caps in total were changed. every cap was changed of each amp. I could not find anyone to do what I did at any cost. most do change the 24 main caps. The issue I had was all or none. most all amps older then 10 years old need all new caps to be as new. No one does this as such most buy an old legacy amp or pre amp and then say it’s bad lol. I doubt most legacy are bad but if it was not made new how can it be so. You cannot measure caps for sound. You can run diagnostic tests on them to check for ESR and other specs. Some amp makers tell me to test for ripple lol. if it’s below there specs all is good. This alone is total bull. the only way is to listen . I don’t mean to sound condescending but most all we read on rehab is just filled with lies of one actually do the work as if it’s to be made new. also the ML 33 and ML33 h Amps and most older Krell’s were made for low Z loads. As such may not sound good on 8 ohms. Like dart zeal amps on low Z. it’s best to understand what amp goes best for a given speaker then find the amp that sounds best for your room n needs.
Thanks for your reply.
I’m now looking for a krell 700 FPB CX and after making it new I’ll compare to my amps and sell off one of them.

 

[christoph]

I’m now looking for a krell 700 FPB CX and after making it new I’ll compare to my amps and sell off one of them.

Hi Al
What made you chose exactly this Krell model?

 

[rugyboogie]

Hi Al, Interesting that you are looking for a FPB 700cx.
Have a wanted add on Canuck Mart since March 28 2020.

Had the ML 33, bought used 240 version, and the 33h bought new. Used the amps in my set up using Wilson Maxx along with Wyetch and the ASR Emiiter Exclusive II all at the same time. Room was crowded with amps.
Having owned the ML33h for 12 years, 33 for 5 years for and ASR close to 4 years. Bough the Wyetech because I had the SET itch and couldn't stretch for the Lamms. Agree with you Al that the 300w 33s, 150w 33h and the ASR should be able to drive my Maxx better but to be honest the darT and the Topaz sounded more to my liking. Topaz was preferred by Steve Dobbins as well when he delivered my Beat table.
On paper the Topaz has no right to sound as powerful with Maxx's but it does.
Topaz drives the Divas as well but want to get a SS for them therefore my quest for an amp or amps.

The 33s went to Taiwan, 33h to one of my clients. Before I sold them had a local tech look them over. After reading your post I doubt that my tech would have been as thorough as you with your 33s

 

[Alrainbow]

Hi Al
What made you chose exactly this Krell model?

Hello buddy it’s one of the past legacy krell amps. It can drive my speakers without effort. the cx model was the last revision of the series.

 

[thomask]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/KRELL-FPB-...193437966918?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

This one will be enough to drive Diva.

 

[Kenc]

well...this may be a bit of a useless post since I've never owned the Divas but rather the Duetta II's. For the latter, the best amps I had on them were the Levinson ML-2's - wonderful bass control and saturation of sound. I also owned a Counterpoint SA-20 and Rowland 5 during the time I had the Duetta's and while they had their charms, they did not better the ML-2's. I tried briefly a few other other amps such as Krells, Classe during this time but I always returned to the Levinsons. The tube amps (not SET) that were reputed to work well with Apogees - Ray Lumley M100's, I never got to try with my Duettas. After a few years with the Apogees, I had moved on to M-L CLS's and tried the Lumley's with those. Not bad at all but my favourite amp with the CLS's back then were Levinson - this time ML-20.6's which were considerably quicker and more transparent. Ironically (I suppose) I have been using the Luxman C800-f and M800-a combo for a number of years now on Tidal speakers. I can only imagine they would have done the Duettas justice...but perhaps not as much as the the ML-2's. I sort of wish I had those back right now! On the other hand, there a host of current production amps that would probably serve the Divas well.

 

[christoph]

Hello buddy it’s one of the past legacy krell amps. It can drive my speakers without effort. the cx model was the last revision of the series.

Did you also consider the earlier KRS series or the MRA series?