Apogee Diva with Infinite Baffle

[rugyboogie]

Thank you Brian for the helpful insight. Have read it and will re read it .
Unfortunately have been so busy with my place/cottage that the speakers are still in the garage.
We are getting ready for our concrete floor pour. Part of it is SOG and balance is suspended slab.
Lots of small details but important ones to finish up before we are 100% ready.
Barge, mobile batch plant with supplies, front end loader, concrete trucks, 32M pump truck and placing crew all set for the Aug 22nd.

 

[rugyboogie]

Lots has happened since my last post.
We poured 42M of concrete directly from the barge with the 32M boom pump using 120ft of line to get into the house. Finally no more walking on hydronic pipe, mesh or rebar.

Apogee Divas are still being moved around at my mainland home's music room. It is smaller than the one on the Island.
Have been waiting to get my digital system up and running but had to wait till all of the pieces of the puzzle were here.
Emile Bok from Taiko Audio helped me to get all boxes to play nice with each other yesterday and today. A BIG thank you to Emile.
Vincent Briant of Totaldac also helped to get the reclocker and dac synced to play the music. What beautiful music to enjoy.
This is day one for me using the digital server and dac.
What a game changer in how I get exposed to new music.
Mike Lavigne was kind enough to open my mind and wallet to go down this path.
PS Mike's system sound better every time that we visit.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Lots has happened since my last post.
We poured 42M of concrete directly from the barge with the 32M boom pump using 120ft of line to get into the house. Finally no more walking on hydronic pipe, mesh or rebar.

Apogee Divas are still being moved around at my mainland home's music room. It is smaller than the one on the Island.
Have been waiting to get my digital system up and running but had to wait till all of the pieces of the puzzle were here.
Emile Bok from Taiko Audio helped me to get all boxes to play nice with each other yesterday and today. A BIG thank you to Emile.
Vincent Briant of Totaldac also helped to get the reclocker and dac synced to play the music. What beautiful music to enjoy.
This is day one for me using the digital server and dac.
What a game changer in how I get exposed to new music.
Mike Lavigne was kind enough to open my mind and wallet to go down this path.
PS Mike's system sound better every time that we visit.View attachment 58335

congrats on crossing this threshold! Emile is amazing with all that stuff. happy it worked out. no going back now. you are deep in it.

lots of music to listen to. and love the pic on the progress of your island lair. exciting stuff.

thank you for the kind words about my system.

 

[Zero000]

Interesting pic.

I hope the Divas work out.

I don't know how technical you are but knowledge helps get them tipperty top. They have the potential to be outstanding done right. But they do have to be done right so a good spend is worthwhile to get the last 15-20% if you feel something is wrong or missing. Or the last 70% if there's a serious problem. They are fussy speakers but they are also brilliant when working correctly.

 

[rugyboogie]

Update on my Divas.

Have been learning and playing different amplifiers that I have bought for my Divas. Extremely happy with my TSW Divas.

Dart is bestsounding but shuts down when playing at or above 83db......
The Wyetech Topaz 211 at 18w plays way beyond it's wattage and bested my ML 33 and ML 33h with my Maxx II.
Bought an ML 23.5 in July 2019. Very good, better musically than my previous ML amps.
Bought a Pass Labs X350.5 these have awakened the Divas but run hot and hotter.
Back in May 2014 when I first got the thought to get back into Planar speakers I bought a Classe dr3b. Mint condition one owner and here in the Vancouver area.
This pure class A amp lights up the Divas better than the other amps overall, just enjoy music more with this amp.

So have been researching and contemplating other class A amps and leaning towards ML-2 mono blocks.
Because of age I know that any ML-2 would need a full heath check by a ML tech in the states.
Any thoughts re the pairing or sound of the ML-2 with the Divas ?

 

[awsmone]

Try some Rowland amps with the Divas !

 

[thomask]

Krell work best with Apogee speakers.

 

[Zero000]

O

Krell work best with Apogee speakers.

One of the worst results I have ever had was an Air Tight passive pre and a Krell KSA50 on Duettas.

Even the owner thought it was dreadful. We both sat there in disbelief at how bad it was. It certainly seemed to have enough power, but it sounded as he put it 'as flat as a witches tit!'.

Krell KAV 250A was better. Still easily destroyed by a Parasound A21.

However, KSA300S on restored Calipers was seriously good. I was so surprised after the previous two in Duettas. So it depends on the Krell. The 300S had the matching Krell pre and a Krell DAC. All old but good stuff.

I used 211 based monos for years as all sorts of swap in amps came and went until I bought a Luxman M-800A. That puts 120 Watts class A and up to 300 A/B into the Duettas. Easily then best amp so far, with matching Lux pre.

So interesting you are liking class A. You could try two M-800A bridged. I would. The chap that sold me my 800 is using a 700 (newer model) and only last week was trying to buy back the 800 from me.

Power is NOT the answer. Quality is. I have tried far more powerful amps that the Luxman and they haven't done as well. Pretty dreadful in some cases e.g. Merrill Hypex. Now that was truly dreadful at some 700 Watts.

 

[bonzo75]

Update on my Divas.

Have been learning and playing different amplifiers that I have bought for my Divas. Extremely happy with my TSW Divas.

Dart is bestsounding but shuts down when playing at or above 83db......
The Wyetech Topaz 211 at 18w plays way beyond it's wattage and bested my ML 33 and ML 33h with my Maxx II.
Bought an ML 23.5 in July 2019. Very good, better musically than my previous ML amps.
Bought a Pass Labs X350.5 these have awakened the Divas but run hot and hotter.
Back in May 2014 when I first got the thought to get back into Planar speakers I bought a Classe dr3b. Mint condition one owner and here in the Vancouver area.
This pure class A amp lights up the Divas better than the other amps overall, just enjoy music more with this amp.

So have been researching and contemplating other class A amps and leaning towards ML-2 mono blocks.
Because of age I know that any ML-2 would need a full heath check by a ML tech in the states.
Any thoughts re the pairing or sound of the ML-2 with the Divas ?

Try the symphonic line Kraft 300 watt amp, or cheaper and better will be getting two symphonic line RG7 and biamping.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, is there much difference btwn the older line I've seen sporadic reviews for, and the current line? Other than affordability Lol.

 

[bonzo75]

Ked, is there much difference btwn the older line I've seen sporadic reviews for, and the current line? Other than affordability Lol.

It's still Rolf making them. I don't know if the there is a difference in quality as I haven't compared. The RG7 model was advised to me by audio arts, after he learned I liked the symphonic line 300, he said for people who cannot afford his FM and on a lower budget he advises the symphonic line RG7. There is a guy with scintilla who has been owning the 300 or 400 for a few years now.

 

[bonzo75]

You can also buy two lamm hybrids and biamp

 

[rugyboogie]

Thanks so much for all your posts.

211, Interesting that you liked the A21 better than the Krell KAV 250A. KAS 300s better yet. Krell, been looking at the FPB 450 Mcx series as well.
Seeing that John Curl had a hand in the design of A21 he had a hand with the ML-2 as well. When I first tried the Wyetech at 18W vs my ML 33, ML 33h and ASR I learned quality over quantity plus the music was just more engaging. When Steve Dobbins was setting up my Beat , the 211 were his fav of the amps that I had at the time with the Maxx II. That is why the interest in the Class A ML-2 at 25 W. My Classe at 25W, Wyetech at 18W both have enough current to make the Divas sing.

Parasound has their new JC-1+ in for a review with Stereophile, if you can believe......

The Lamm, JRDG and the Lux rarely come up for sale used, but keep my eye out for these as well.

Again, thanks for your input.

 

[Brian Beck]

Another vintage amp that MIGHT be worth auditioning is the Marantz MA-9S2 monoblock. A good buddy of mine, a former Pass Labs engineer, uses a pair of these with his huge Sound Labs electrostatic speakers. Granted that electrostatics and ribbons present different challenges to the power amp. But he thinks they might be worth a try with Apogees. He also uses a pair of giant Pass Labs X-600.5 amps, so his high regard for the Marantz amps is noteworthy.

This is NOT a recommendation. I haven’t tried them. But if you know someone who has a pair, maybe you could borrow them.

 

[thomask]

About 30 years ago, I started driving Apogee Duetta Sig with 200W Perreaux pre and amp.

The I auditioned Krell KSA 150 and Mark Levinson 23 at my home.

Although ML23 sounds transparent but KSA 150 had driven Duetta with more authority in bass.

I had been happy with Duetta Sig and KSA 150 for 10 years.

I believe that big Krell will be up to driving Diva well.

 

[Alrainbow]

Update on my Divas.

Have been learning and playing different amplifiers that I have bought for my Divas. Extremely happy with my TSW Divas.

Dart is bestsounding but shuts down when playing at or above 83db......
The Wyetech Topaz 211 at 18w plays way beyond it's wattage and bested my ML 33 and ML 33h with my Maxx II.
Bought an ML 23.5 in July 2019. Very good, better musically than my previous ML amps.
Bought a Pass Labs X350.5 these have awakened the Divas but run hot and hotter.
Back in May 2014 when I first got the thought to get back into Planar speakers I bought a Classe dr3b. Mint condition one owner and here in the Vancouver area.
This pure class A amp lights up the Divas better than the other amps overall, just enjoy music more with this amp.

So have been researching and contemplating other class A amps and leaning towards ML-2 mono blocks.
Because of age I know that any ML-2 would need a full heath check by a ML tech in the states.
Any thoughts re the pairing or sound of the ML-2 with the Divas ?

How old are the mark Levinson amps ? When was the las time they were re caped ? As I own the ml33 Amps I found a big improvement after I changed all the caps inside. Some 128 pcs on both amps. yes a very big job but a big payoff in the end.

 

[microstrip]

You can also buy two lamm hybrids and biamp

I have two pairs of M1.2R and one L2Ref for sale, but they are 230V and can only send to Europe.

 

[bonzo75]

I have two pairs of M1.2R and one L2Ref for sale, but they are 230V and can only send to Europe.

Did you use the hybrids on the soundlabs?

 

[microstrip]

Did you use the hybrids on the soundlabs?

Yes, the M1.2R sound really good on them. But I can't keep everything that sounds great!

 

[Zero000]

Thanks so much for all your posts.

211, Interesting that you liked the A21 better than the Krell KAV 250A. KAS 300s better yet. Krell, been looking at the FPB 450 Mcx series as well.
Seeing that John Curl had a hand in the design of A21 he had a hand with the ML-2 as well. When I first tried the Wyetech at 18W vs my ML 33, ML 33h and ASR I learned quality over quantity plus the music was just more engaging. When Steve Dobbins was setting up my Beat , the 211 were his fav of the amps that I had at the time with the Maxx II. That is why the interest in the Class A ML-2 at 25 W. My Classe at 25W, Wyetech at 18W both have enough current to make the Divas sing.

Parasound has their new JC-1+ in for a review with Stereophile, if you can believe......

The Lamm, JRDG and the Lux rarely come up for sale used, but keep my eye out for these as well.

Again, thanks for your input.

No problem. This might help a bit more.

The Parasound A21 is one control freak of an amp on Duettas. A Porsche of a performer. When I first heard it playing loud I was astonished. Really. Incredible dynamics and sense of power.

But the flip side to that amp on Duettas is it is relentless. A bit too much to take for everyday long listening sessions. After a while you just sit there and think "I am being overwhelmed here - relax for Christ's sake - take it easy". There was also a feeling that the bass was too tight/unnatural. My 211 monoblocks did bass in a more pleasing manner - it just sounded more natural.

The A21 tries to be accurate and has no tonal embellishments. But for the money I still think it is a killer amp. I'd love to hear the JCs out of curiosity.

The Luxman M-800A is a lovely sounding amp, especially with the matching C-800F preamp. It's relaxed, and sounds very natural, something so few solid state amps seem to be able to achieve. Read the Fremer review on Stereophile. He loved the power amp and wasn't so impressed with the preamp, but I think it is a great match for Apogees. One thing that can happen with Apogees is a sense of hyper-detailing i.e. a sense you are getting bombarded with too much information. With that Lux combo you never get the sense of that happening. And that for me is a top accolade when paired with Duettas.