Apogee Diva with Infinite Baffle

[bonzo75]

Forget lists Ked. And the Dag that Justin likely can't afford. How does the Luxman sound on his Duettas just in it's own right, not whether a 5x pricier amp sounds better? How killer is it? Just as a standalone demo?

I have always liked the lux. It has good current and drive and organic. Apogees need both current and power to wake them up, so I think the Luxman m900u will be better.

I can't say as standalone demo because I prefer Henk's duetta (which I heard with biamped plinius though in a much larger and better room) and the US duetta (which I actually hard with push pull, the TRL). But since you already preferred Justin's you will like it much better with the Luxman, as I thought it is much better than his previous amps.

Imo he still needs to change his pre which is weak link from decades ago.

Apogees just need lots of drive and power. It is because of this lack of headroom that you have problems playing them at low volumes and have to play them ear splitting levels

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, I can't judge Apogees fairly. The Divas I heard were like sleeping giants, the most amazing imaging and visceralness I've heard in a spkr, but poor tonally (for reasons me and you agree on).

Justin's Duettas totally wowed me in the short time I was there despite audible archetypes from his streamer and/or cbls. And esp after what was a frustratingly lukewarm demo of other ribbons earlier that same day.

Caveat, no classical played, but a reasonable cross section of jazz, prog and electronic/dance. Wow factor in spades.

A definite energetic Labrador of a system compared to some of the diffident Poodles that I've heard otherwise.

 

[Zero000]

Fyi, the Luxman m900u I had been suggesting to Justin for three years, and is the bottom of my suggestion list (Though the Best value)

This claim is just utterly untrue, Marc.

Trust me it's total BS.

 

[Zero000]

I have always liked the lux. It has good current and drive and organic. Apogees need both current and power to wake them up, so I think the Luxman m900u will be better.

I can't say as standalone demo because I prefer Henk's duetta (which I heard with biamped plinius though in a much larger and better room) and the US duetta (which I actually hard with push pull, the TRL). But since you already preferred Justin's you will like it much better with the Luxman, as I thought it is much better than his previous amps.

Imo he still needs to change his pre which is weak link from decades ago.

Apogees just need lots of drive and power. It is because of this lack of headroom that you have problems playing them at low volumes and have to play them ear splitting levels

Ked this post is just rubbish. No respect for it at all.

 

[bonzo75]

This claim is just utterly untrue, Marc.

Trust me it's total BS.

No. I have been saying it here on the forum...check Luxman posts, also on my blog Lux compares between various amps on YG rating them as great value for SS, and to you

 

[spiritofmusic]

Sounds like a Trump v MSM scenario.

 

[bonzo75]

This claim is just utterly untrue, Marc.

Trust me it's total BS.

Shall I what'sapp you a text screen shot between you and me from June 2017? Just sent you.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Who's playing Mueller in all this?

I can see the tagline:
"He thought he got away with it, but didn't think a screenshot could bring him down".

 

[bonzo75]

My text to him says the m900u will kill your valve amp. Of course, the word kill is not something he will prefer.

 

[spiritofmusic]

We don't use violent words like "kill" on WBF
No: slay, slaughter, destroy, are better alternatives.

 

[Zero000]

Shall I what'sapp you a text screen shot between you and me from June 2017? Just sent you.

Ah OK that went in one ear and out the other. It was from 2 years ago. Never paid any attention to it.

The reason I went for the Luxman was it's technical spec, the Fremer review and Stereophile tech report, and hearing various Luxman kit over the years. Just took a risky punt. Nothing to do with your thoughts.

Sorry to damage your ego.

I am surprised by it, though. It is the only solid state amp to genuinely better the 211s and all other solid state and valve efforts, even those with more power.

Good Duetta driver. No question.

 

[bonzo75]

No we did this many times. Can't be bothered to go through other texts and many posts

 

[bonzo75]

I also told you about the tech spec. The stereophile said the 800a is not stable down to 1 ohm. They actually then took them back on pallets and fixed the issue.b the distributors have a list of which 800a have the issue fixed. The m900u does not have that issue and is stable down to 1 ohm

 

[Zero000]

I also told you about the tech spec. The stereophile said the 800a is not stable down to 1 ohm. They actually then took them back on pallets and fixed the issue.b the distributors have a list of which 800a have the issue fixed. The m900u does not have that issue and is stable down to 1 ohm

Why would I need stability at one Ohm? Or even 2 Ohms? At the absolute lowest the Duetta doesn't drop below 3.

The M-900U produces far less class A. It isn't as musical from what I can gather. It will also cost far more as it's newer.

 

[bonzo75]

Why would I need stability at one Ohm? Or even 2 Ohms? At the absolute lowest the Duetta doesn't drop below 3.

The M-900U produces far less class A. It isn't as.musical from what I can gather. It will also cost far more as it's newer.

It's used price is excellent. Yes logic says because it has less class A it might not be musical. But it is quite. I never compared next to each other. But apogees need loads of power. Hence I say it and the Kraft over it. I know you don't agree.

 

[Zero000]

It's used price is excellent. Yes logic says because it has less class A it might not be musical. But it is quite. I never compared next to each other. But apogees need loads of power. Hence I say it and the Kraft over it. I know you don't agree.

I've spent hours looking at the Accuphase power meters. I've even posted videos here showing 75 Watts giving 93DB.

The Luxman M-800a runs in class A even when it's loud. 120 Watts of it into 4 Ohms.

The only way to be sure which is better is to dump both an 800 and 900 in the same room for a few weeks and swap between them.

Until that happens we don't know. That simple.

 

[BruceD]

I was talking to Ayon reps at Munich this year. I had a chat with the sales rep who passed me on to the tech guy.

When I mentioned that the Ayon Orthos II (250 Watt triode, 400 pentode) kept shutting down in triode mode driving my Duettas at way less than 250 Watt output, he showed absolutely no interest or curiosity, and all I could get out of him was a few "yes's" and a smile.

Very, very unimpressed with that to say the least.

The very same amps also shutdown in triode mode driving Divas.

Thats interesting-I can't say I'm overly impressed with the Ayon sound but they are well presented.

--my friend is still awaiting his "finished' Divas--

that saga has driven him to almost absolute despair --I spoke with him couple of weeks ago --

I gather the Frames are the stumbling block at this time.

Anyway I'll be curious to know also how the combo gels --or otherwise

Nix to report tho at this time

BruceD

 

[cjfrbw]

Interesting to hear all the 'Apogee Memes' rehashed, many with the usual unfair generalizations. I used to run my ribbons with active crossover and a couple of Wavac MD572 to good effect (50 or so SET watts per channel times four channels, probably power rated at the usual SET 10 percent distortion envelope). This always got compliments from outside listeners.

I transitioned to VFET's for a couple of years with directly heated triode driver stages, also to good effect.

However, I put one of the Wavac's back into the midrange ribbon recently ( crossover 350Hz@24db/octave to 7000 Hz). This time, I put in an impedance matching transformer to bump up the impedance from 2.5 ohm to 10 ohm through the 8 ohm amplifier tap.

God, it's like dying and going to midrange heaven. I feel embarrassed that I underutilized the Wavacs for so many years without feeding them correct impedance. It isn't the least bit soft sounding and images better than anything I have ever heard in my system. There is no sense of deficient power or punch, total addiction and gorgeous articulation. I would even say it dips it's toe at the threshold of the Lamm ML3 type experience. I still operate the bass panel from 80 Hz to 350 Hz with Yamaha B2 ancient VFET. The combo works very well together. The power meter on the Yamaha for that frequency band (80-350) on the bass ribbon seldom if ever exceeds 15 watts at my loudest comfortable listening level.

I think the Ayon is an OTL? It would definitely need some kind of impedance matching transformer to bump up the impedances into 8 to 16 ohms range. Impedance matching trannies are non-gapped and use continuous wire. They use the electromagnetic inductance effect of a coiled wire and thus have low insertion loss and no broken signal path. The main caveat is having one large enough for the power output of the amplifier (Yuge for over 200 watts).

OOPS, Ayon NOT OTL! I can't understand how they would't drive a Duetta. I used MBL450's for years on my Apogee Stages (3 ohm), they never blushed or burped.

 

[rugyboogie]

Lifted the top of the crate to see the Diva. Waited so long so I just had to see em.
Back to work.

 

[cjfrbw]

Gollee, seeing those gorgeous Divas just makes my Apogee heart go pitter patter!