Apogee Diva with Infinite Baffle

[Zero000]

I heard 2 (or 3?) different pairs of Divas but didn't really warm up to them
I would like to listen to a recently refurbished pair with proper amplfication, though

Graz was trying to sell me his all metal Divas over the phone recently.

Not cheap.

Curious about how they perform I have to say.

 

[christoph]

all metal Divas

All metal Divas? Never heard of...
Can you elaborate?

 

[marty]

Funny video.
I think MikeL has 11 on his volume knob too.
Kind regards,
Tang

Actually, I've been to Mike's a few times and have never heard him put the pedal to the metal even with rock. More importantly, he generally gives the volume remote to his guests and it is they who decide what level of hearing injury they wish to sustain! Many experienced listeners know that in most great systems, too loud can be counterproductive.

Springsteen at the Meadowlands however, is another story. Those amps did go to 11! Even Ked would have been satisfied with that volume.
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/springsteen-at-the-meadowlands-8-25-16.21300/

 

[bonzo75]

Actually, I've been to Mike's a few times and have never heard him put the pedal to the metal even with rock. More importantly, he generally gives the volume remote to his guests and it is they who decide what level of hearing injury they wish to sustain! Many experienced listeners know that in most great systems, too loud can be counterproductive.

Springsteen at the Meadowlands however, is another story. Those amps did go to 11! Even Ked would have been satisfied with that volume.
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/springsteen-at-the-meadowlands-8-25-16.21300/

I think people think because he let go the lamm it must be because of volume. The concept of drive and those 2000 odd posts did not get through

 

[Zero000]

All metal Divas? Never heard of...
Can you elaborate?

Yeah.

They are made from solid aluminium. No wood. Wood is banned.

 

[iansr]

No that is not his name--he is avery private person and I respect that on a Public forum such as this.

I shall however give my observations of the sonics when I audition as I've stated before--.

BruceD

Is this person in the USA may I ask?

 

[rugyboogie]

Anyone heard the Divas with Lamm 1.2 Ref, or the Ayre MX-R Twenty monoblocks ?
Sufficient power to drive them ?

 

[christoph]

Anyone heard the Divas with Lamm 1.2 Ref, or the Ayre MX-R Twenty monoblocks ?
Sufficient power to drive them ?

Heard the Scintillas and the Studio Grands with Lamm M 1.1 Ref for years.
They drove the Scinnies to insane SPLs without breaking a sweat. Let alone the Studio Grands as the easiest to drive Apogee there is.

 

[rugyboogie]

Update on Diva's.
Got word today from True Sound Works that the speakers are now ready to receive paint.
Choosing a DuPont automotive paint. Picked up samples from a Hot Rod custom paint shop. Diva's will be ready next month for pick up. Road trip to Nevada.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Congratulations on their progress. That is very exciting!

What amplifiers are you planning to use on the Divas?

 

[thomask]

Yours is a life dream project.

I had driven Duetta Signature by Krell KSA 150 from 1989 to 1999.

I still miss the sound of Apogee.

I am living in Washington state about 50 minutes from the Canadian Border.

I used to live in Abbotsford, BC before moving to US.


It will be nice if you invite people to your place after you finish your dream project.

I will be happy to join the party.



Thomas

 

[Kenc]

I have not read the whole thread so please excuse me if my comments are not completely pertinent.
In the mid 80's when my audio lust was at it highest, I heard a pair of Apogee Duetta's driven by Krell amps.
I purchased the Duetta II's and drove them with Levinson ML2's, Counterpoint SA-20 (until it spontaneously combusted) and a Rowland 5.
I just loved the smooth Apogee sound and how speakers could float an image in space. I love reminiscing by the way.

 

[Bodhi]

Congrats on your soon to be shipped TSW Diva's! Rich Murry is one of the best Apogee restorers around. With the Graz ribbons, improved frames and x-overs, they are Diva's on steroids! I always loved the fast, open, dynamic and natural sound of planar magnetic/ribbon speakers, incl: the mightly Infinity IRS-V's. But there is something special about a planar/ribbon panel radiating directly into the room. Along with offerings from Magnepan, Alsyvox and GT Audio, audiophiles are now spoiled for choice!

 

[christoph]

Update on Diva's.
Got word today from True Sound Works that the speakers are now ready to receive paint.
Choosing a DuPont automotive paint. Picked up samples from a Hot Rod custom paint shop. Diva's will be ready next month for pick up. Road trip to Nevada.

Congrats.
I'm very happy for you to finally be able to pick up your wonderful Divas
What color did you chose?

 

[morricab]

Hi rugyboogie

Your project sounds like heaven to me

I also like your dimensions (4.9m x 3m x 7.3m) for the dedicated Audio room, not too big and not too small, and with a very nice room hight. IMHO just right.

Are you sure you will need subwoofers with the big Apogee?
The big Apogees go easily down into the very low 20Hz. I rather see integration problems with the Subs to the Apogees, apart from my opinion that big Apogees don't need subwoofers anyways

3ft out is rather too close to the front wall, while 5ft are a good starting point. You will have to find the sweet spot trying.

I would start without any Subs at all and see if you really miss something.
I'm very confident you won't miss deep bass from the Apogees alone.

Is the Diva set in stone or can you also imagine a pair of Apogee FullRanges or Scintillas?
With what amplification do you plan to drive the Apogees?

Let the discussion begin

You're wrong, You're wrong and oh yeah, your're wrong

 

[morricab]

Several things:

1. If it's not too late to change your construction specs, you should do away with the plans for concrete walls and floor and stiff timber ceiling. I struggled for 20 years in a basement "concrete bunker" room. What many (including me at the time I built it) don't realize is that even with the "right" dimensions, making the room surfaces "stiff" accents the room's bass modes, creating large-in-magnitude sharp (high Q) peaks and dips in the bass response. Even with dipole speakers like the Apogee, you likely will need electronic equalization to tame the peaks and dips in such a room. Certainly the range covered by the subs will need equalization.

What you want is actually a "bass leaky" room, one with surfaces which flex a good bit in response to bass. Think thin drywall, wood paneling sheets, and suspended hardwood floors which have noticeable "give" to them. This will spread out (i.e., lower the Q) of the the peaks and dips in the bass response, as well as decrease the magnitude of the peaks and dips. Smoother bass, in other words.

2. For dipole speakers, if your room is large enough, there should be a minimum of seven feet between the back of the speaker and the wall behind the speakers. You need that much distance to delay hearing the back wave of the speakers enough to have the back wave just add spaciousness to the sound rather than cause smearing of the direct sound. This is a common error of those who use dipole speakers. It is the #1 reason why most dipoles are said to require a lot of space around them. Proximity to side walls is not an issue, but proximity to the wall behind the speaker is a huge issue in terms of getting the to sound maximally pleasing and open. Your 24-foot dimension is large enough; I suggest starting with the speakers 8 feet from the wall behind them, you sitting 8 feet in front of them, and having 8 feet behind you to the wall behind the listening seat. The Rule of Thirds makes a lot of sense with dipole speakers because this arrangement puts the backwave in phase with the front wave as heard from the listening seat.

3. An infinite baffle subwoofer has no opening in the box. It is a large sealed box which exerts minimal back pressure on the interior side of the bass driver. Historically, for example, the KLH Model 12 speaker was an infinite baffle, while the AR-3a, having much smaller sealed boxes creating significant back-pressure against the interior side of the bass driver, was classified as acoustic suspension.

For typical underdamped speakers what you say makes sense. But I had Apogees and other large planars in what was basically a "concrete bunker" and they worked beautifully this way. Speakers with large underdamped bass tuning will indeed not benefit from very solid walls.

 

[morricab]

The mono on the far right. Loaded with NOS Amperex 211, and excellent 211. Better than KR when compared against it, and better than GE, RCA, cheap Chinese etc.

You cannot buy them anymore. Austria Analogue 211 PSE. They can output 170 Watts peak, and I believe it, as otherwise they wouldn't drive my Duetta Interstellas as well as they do.

Whilst they won't go quite as loud as half a Kilowatt of SS, they get pretty close. The last few hundred Watts really don't add much to volume output.

The 211s are SET or PP? I thought they were PP but you said PSE... either way, they look like nice amps and I am sure they do justice to the Apogees.

 

[iansr]

Update on Diva's.
Got word today from True Sound Works that the speakers are now ready to receive paint.
Choosing a DuPont automotive paint. Picked up samples from a Hot Rod custom paint shop. Diva's will be ready next month for pick up. Road trip to Nevada.

Hi there
We are travelling the same path, but I’m some way behind you! I’ve PM’d you.

 

[Zero000]

The 211s are SET or PP? I thought they were PP but you said PSE... either way, they look like nice amps and I am sure they do justice to the Apogees.

PP. They are called 211 PSEs though. Confusing name.

 

[christoph]

You're wrong, You're wrong and oh yeah, your're wrong

Can you elaborate some more?