Apogee Full range

[amirm]

To some extent I think the recording was also responsible. Here is the brass ear ripping track... believe me it was rawer in the flesh than on the video.

There's been a lot of brass playing in shopping malls live this Xmas over here and it just doesn't sound ear ripping. This did.

Sure it was show conditions but there's only show much allowance you can make for that being realistic about it.

Since I have said amp, let's see if we can rule out if it was the fault of the music, the listener impressions, or the speakers. Shazam says this is the track being played:

Do folks agree? And what do you think of its level of brightness?

Importantly, if that is the track, where do I buy it? Can't get any hits on a CD, just MP3.

And oh, I went looking for the author and context of that video and found out it was from you!!! This is what you said then (emphasis mine): http://www.martinloganowners.com/fo...Fi-Show-Report&p=164610&viewfull=1#post164610

"Exciting dynamic sound from the JBL Project Everest DD67000. Went in here multiple times. Just possibly a bit too "in your face" but a damned lively loudspeaker with the material I heard on them. I liked them quite a bit. Probably really good with electronic music and reggae looking at those bass drivers. You're not gonna get bored listening to these. You might not be able to "take it" at times, but boredom won't get you out of the room, adrenalin will.

Some very nice Mark Levinson kit in there too. Slideshow here."

I don't read any impression of harshness, brightness, etc. in your write up then. Or anything negative for that matter. Would you please explain?

BTW, we had that combo of K2 and ML 53 and I could listen to it for hours. We played Jazz and my second gen master tape on R2R. We did this hour after hour the first day we got them. While there may be problems, I am not a witness to them. Take that ddk.

 

[amirm]

OK, I am still listening to the Brass piece in my ear while I was typing the above and it just ended. I must say, it is a bit of relief. It is not extreme at all but sure is a bright piece. This is through my etymotic headphones of my HP laptop.

 

[microstrip]

This is because you've never heard these emulation algorithms in action before.

Has anyone heard them? I would immediately buy one that could transform the Devialet 400's in a Lamm ML3!

 

[Blizzard]

Has anyone heard them? I would immediately buy one that could transform the Devialet 400's in a Lamm ML3!

Hopefully RMAF 2016. Not sure if Devialet will have this feature or not.

 

[microstrip]

What do I care about the wannabe when I can have the original? It's the same thing with digital photography, 30+ years of trying to emulate film! There's certainly a lot of analog envy going on with digital !

david

The "speed" of the digital threads at WBF just confirms that digital is still a developing technique in stereo. It is being perfected and users are beta testers of today's solution. The "emulation" argument has been used for more than twenty years, but every time availability will be only next year.

 

[microstrip]

The "speed" of the digital threads at WBF just confirms that digital is still a developing technique in stereo. It is being perfected and users are beta testers of today's solution. The "emulation" argument has been used for more than twenty years, but every time availability will be only next year.

Hopefully RMAF 2016. (...)

How did I guess?

 

[ddk]

BTW, we had that combo of K2 and ML 53 and I could listen to it for hours. We played Jazz and my second gen master tape on R2R. We did this hour after hour the first day we got them. While there may be problems, I am not a witness to them. Take that ddk.

I took it! As that you must have been hard of hearing . By the way, was the listening done under double blind testing conditions? Otherwise you know how that works !

david

 

[ddk]

You're right. Much better than film

I have no problems with if you like digital better, but the cameras you picked sure blow the cost benefit argument out of the water!

david

 

[amirm]

Why is that?
david

'cause I am good at being sarcastic and you ain't good at getting it.

 

[amirm]

I took it! As that you must have been hard of hearing .

Very much so. But just like the story of how you run away from the bear by just running faster than your buddy, all I need to have is better hearing than you. And given this discussion, it is clear, that I do!!!

By the way, was the listening done under double blind testing conditions? Otherwise you know how that works !

david

It was triple blind. We usually have the mail lady walk in and break the test blindness. So we had her blindfolded too.

 

[ddk]

Very much so. But just like the story of how you run away from the bear by just running faster than your buddy, all I need to have is better hearing than you. And given this discussion, it is clear, that I do!!!

Time for some measurements & charts!

david

 

[Zero000]

"Exciting dynamic sound from the JBL Project Everest DD67000. Went in here multiple times. Just possibly a bit too "in your face" but a damned lively loudspeaker with the material I heard on them. I liked them quite a bit. Probably really good with electronic music and reggae looking at those bass drivers. You're not gonna get bored listening to these. You might not be able to "take it" at times, but boredom won't get you out of the room, adrenalin will.

Some very nice Mark Levinson kit in there too. Slideshow here."

I don't read any impression of harshness, brightness, etc. in your write up then. Or anything negative for that matter. Would you please explain?

BTW, we had that combo of K2 and ML 53 and I could listen to it for hours. We played Jazz and my second gen master tape on R2R. We did this hour after hour the first day we got them. While there may be problems, I am not a witness to them. Take that ddk.

The clue is in the "you might not be able to take it at times" - what that really meant is that they can become overbearingly bright. I didn't put it like that but hey, that's life, I guess. I'm not getting paid to write professional reviews.

I did like them, with that caveat. They, or that system, can be a bit of an earful that can be hard to take.

As I have said I am uncertain where to apportion the blame, though I have expressed my suspicions.

 

[Zero000]

Which $12000 Hypex based amp are you referring to? If it's the Merrill or Acoustic Imagery, the sound you don't like is the LM4562 IC opamp input buffer. I agree, not that great.

Merrill. Some NC400s made with a JFET input stage and linear PS sounded A LOT better to me. But they aren't on the market...

 

[amirm]

The clue is in the "you might not be able to take it at times" - what that really meant is that they can become overbearingly bright. I didn't put it like that but hey, that's life, I guess. I'm not getting paid to write professional reviews.

Was not asking for a professional review. Just asking for an explanation of opposite terms used to describe the same experience. Who would say you "liked them quite a bit" while in the next breath saying they can become overbearingly bright? I have yet to hear someone say they went to a room at a show and found the sound tiring and fatiguing, yet go back to the same room multiple times. And complement the Mark Levinson gear in question as "very nice" bit of kit.

Anyway, your words are there to be read and impressions formed.

I did like them, with that caveat. They, or that system, can be a bit of an earful that can be hard to take.

As I have said I am uncertain where to apportion the blame, though I have expressed my suspicions.

Well, liking them did not come across in your post in our forum. As to the suspicion, I am trying to get to the bottom of it. Do you know if the source was a CD? And where is that CD for purchase? Could he have been playing the lossy MP3 which is all I can find?

 

[Blizzard]

Merrill. Some NC400s made with a JFET input stage and linear PS sounded A LOT better to me. But they aren't on the market...

The problem with that amp isn't the SMPS or the NC1200's. It's the cheap IC opamp based input stage. Not sure why they would use a $2 input stage on an amp of that caliber.


checkout this website. I talked this guy into building an NC500 based amp with an input stage that can be tweaked with different input stage discrete opamps. He ended up doing it and for the price he's selling them for, I would never have done it. He's pretty much running a charity organization


http://www.iqspeakers.co.uk/#!hypex-amps/avuyk

 

[Zero000]

Was not asking for a professional review. Just asking for an explanation of opposite terms used to describe the same experience. Who would say you "liked them quite a bit" while in the next breath saying they can become overbearingly bright? I have yet to hear someone say they went to a room at a show and found the sound tiring and fatiguing, yet go back to the same room multiple times. And complement the Mark Levinson gear in question as "very nice" bit of kit.

Anyway, your words are there to be read and impressions formed.


Well, liking them did not come across in your post in our forum. As to the suspicion, I am trying to get to the bottom of it. Do you know if the source was a CD? And where is that CD for purchase? Could he have been playing the lossy MP3 which is all I can find?

TBH I find that markedly consistent with my original report. The Mark Levinson kit is very nice, in the sense that it is very well made and expensive, and looks good.

Go to the show report or just look up any other videos I took at the time and play them. The mic in the camera tells some truth, and you WILL find that relatively bright - very much so in fact compared to the others shot.

If he was playing an MP3 I'd be amazed. It is Munich.

Get a TIDAL subscription or trial if you want to hear it. I don't know where else to get it.

I am amazed I'm getting taken so seriously. Calm down all - you are reading pretty deeply into what I am saying... and not always coming to the right conclusions. That is unavoidable unless you are going to write super long descriptive prose. I can't be arsed to do that. I am just giving brief impressions of a show. Take it with a pinch of salt, just like any other review.

 

[thedudeabides]

I am amazed I'm getting taken so seriously. Calm down all - you are reading pretty deeply into what I am saying... and not always coming to the right conclusions. That is unavoidable unless you are going to write super long descriptive prose. I can't be arsed to do that. I am just giving brief impressions of a show. Take it with a pinch of salt, just like any other review.

Unfortunately Justin, that seems to be the MO of some who post on this forum. That's why I sent you that recent PM.

PS: The "intensity" (some may interpret as potential lack of respect) of some does get tiring after awhile.

 

[amirm]

I am amazed I'm getting taken so seriously. Calm down all - you are reading pretty deeply into what I am saying... and not always coming to the right conclusions. That is unavoidable unless you are going to write super long descriptive prose. I can't be arsed to do that. I am just giving brief impressions of a show. Take it with a pinch of salt, just like any other review.

Calm down? I have been known to hang people by their ties for just looking at me the wrong way, much less talk down my $50K daily driver amplifier. Your show report in the other forum was absolutely perfect. I am not critiquing that. Take care.

 

[Rodney Gold]

Big phat band..amazing drive and dynamics..in your face bordering harsh upper mids.. not at all shy and retiring.. I love them .. but 1 album at a time is my limit on my system..

 

[amirm]

Big phat band..amazing drive and dynamics..in your face bordering harsh upper mids.. not at all shy and retiring.. I love them .. but 1 album at a time is my limit on my system..

Give the man a cookie . Found the download on Pono and bought it:https://www.ponomusic.com/ccrz__CCP...&artistId=of:7de10d621a574f629344cae95a8615f7

The first track is near reference quality at 16/44.1. The background is actually quite warm and nice. The highs once they come in, are exactly what Rodney says. Bright but not agitating. Could not listen to them at full reference level but a bit lower and it is fine and what it is meant to be. That is on the same track the used: High Maintenance.

Listening to the second track now and the highs are more subdued and the overall tone quite pleasing actually.

Third track, Comes Love, is excellent, reference quality and quite warm with excellent extension down low to high.

Pretty happy that something good came out of this in buying this excellent album.

Thanks Rodney.