Well, if you want the virus to spread, I'll rely on you to get me that date I can come up to you. I'm planning on listening to the Omegas w/60W Nat SE2SEs (my amp) at Peter's on the 16th. That will be the first step, then hopefully you, Jon w/the Advance 7s, back to Peter to go Omegas/Transmitters in the New Yr, and then to Frankfurt/Monaco to hear the Trios/B'horns. Maybe Munich to hear the Zu Experiences. Familiar w/AG Duos, but Duos Mezzos demo could happen alongside Trios. While all this is happening, I'll be trying to get my loft space opened up - planning on a Toblerone-shaped triangular x-section space, 30' deep x 30' wide (in effect useable 15' as eaves slope down to below 6' height) x 9' high listening space. Should be good for all these choices.
Apogee Full range
- Thread starter bonzo75
- Start date
Won't sound good, I heard them with your amps, told him to swap to 120s in 5 mins.
Well, this is the thing. Apparently the NEW se2se's (mine is the decade-old model w/211s) w/GM70 tubes have the same specs as my one, but apparently the different tubes and improved circuit pattern/beefier transformers make them much better at driving the Omegas. So peter reports, and he's a stand up guy, never had any reason to doubt him before.
I'm personally a bit skeptical, Peter is adamant it's a good fit, but ONLY in normal domestic room, and ONLY IF not driven much beyond the 70-75 dB that he sticks with. Peter revealed Ron's highr volumes took the SE2SEs to the verge of clipping/teeth gritting.
He quite openly agrees that in a bigger room, at higher volumes, the Transmitters are a no brainer.
Am I better off waiting until the Transmitters can be used? I don't really want to get a poor first impression of planars, esp w/certain reservations already present.
I may look like I'm fretting, whereas truthfully...I'm having a full-on panic attack!
Zus just totally speak to me, but after lots of exposure to AG Duos, I know what they fall short in too (as well as knowing what Duos lack). Trios and Liszts exposure has cemented in me the interest in an alternative to Zu that will excite me in a way no other boxes are likely to. And despite the Maggie 20.7 shortcomings, I got enough from my short exposure to them to know that I really like a lot about that panel presentation too.
So, we have Zus that have never let me down, and the flagship released in the Spring promises to be superb, Trios w/Basshorns which I have no doubt I'll love, and Amphytrions/Graz-Oakey Duettas (Interstellar-spec), both w/Transmitters, in a room that accommodate them all.
Spirit (and Bonzo)- would love to hear the pros and cons of Duo Mezzos vs. the Definitions when you have a chance.
btw, in regards to "high watt SET" working on some of these panels - here are the Wavac measurements for their alleged 150 watt, 550lb amp (the 350k one). nowhere near the power quoted unless you love huge distortion.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/...er-amplifier-measurements#OPkJjIIkZ377kSp3.97
you should really ask NAT to confirm their distortion curve measurements to assist your shopping process. that will help the most to determine if they will drive them (or any speaker). clearly with AGs and Zus, there isn't an issue but I hesitate for other types of speakers. Its not just power output, but SETs really don't do well in lower impedance as measurements like the above show.
I made this same point, in a post a little earlier, in respect of published (or not) amplifier specifications under load, together with some 'real world' sub 3 Ohm - 0.7 Ohm power draw measurements via an 150 Watt KT120 amplifier.
'Off' message patently!
Last edited:
Justin, the "same" amps - but in effect uprated models w/more powerful transformers, and using GM70s instead of my 211s, which according to Peter, control the Omegas better, despite having the same power rating.
The Sablon Reserva PCs are not yet on the Duo subs and I too can now hear the discontinuity of tone since upgrading the amp and source PCs plus these are 15 yr old Duo subs and a LONG way from current production with dsp.
I'm sure you'll be impressed with Trios but it's such an important decision that all comers must be heard to make a lifetime choice. Take your time and all here at WBF will help guide you through as best as we can.
More Sablon please Mr. Coles
Blue58
It is the dispersion characteristic of horns when mated with conventional drivers that screws me up with the Liszt, the older Duos and to a lesser extent the newer Duos. The Duo Mezzo may well work well. There was a pair sitting in the corner at the Hong Kong Hi-Fi show in 2008 and never played. Really annoying!
In a large, suitable space, I don't think the Omega or Interstella competes with a recent Trio / bass horn setup. At Munich 2011, I thought an Audio Aero La Fontaine with AG solid state amps is just about as good as it gets, in all honesty. Lotta money for a recent Trio setup though. For some reason, the Munich 2014 Trio setup was no where near as good. I think the room and gear made a big difference. Smaller room in 2014.
Kedar will disagree, but I think a very large room is essential to get the best from a Trio setup. And Marc appears to have one.
In a large, suitable space, I don't think the Omega or Interstella competes with a recent Trio / bass horn setup. At Munich 2011, I thought an Audio Aero La Fontaine with AG solid state amps is just about as good as it gets, in all honesty. Lotta money for a recent Trio setup though. For some reason, the Munich 2014 Trio setup was no where near as good. I think the room and gear made a big difference. Smaller room in 2014.
Kedar will disagree, but I think a very large room is essential to get the best from a Trio setup. And Marc appears to have one.
To help Marc, here is a shot of the 2011 Munich setup. 4 bass horns. The room is much deeper than it looks in the shot - you can't even really see the huge seating area.
No idea of the performance at low volume levels.
Accurate and genuinely hi-fi sounding (i.e. not a WE horns/Silbatone voodoo magic super entertainment system!). Excellent IMHO.
No idea of the performance at low volume levels.
Accurate and genuinely hi-fi sounding (i.e. not a WE horns/Silbatone voodoo magic super entertainment system!). Excellent IMHO.
Hi the Frankfurt room is large and I then heard them in a 6m * 4 room, enjoyed both equally. In fact for amphi or full range I would want a bigger room, they won't do well in 6 * 5
Trios unlike panels don't have imaging problems if space or walls not right. They need a minimum width
Trios unlike panels don't have imaging problems if space or walls not right. They need a minimum width
I don't agree. If you can give them the separation in the shot above and mount 4 bass horns you have a real life small venue band in fornt of you type presentation.
I've heard Interstellas in a larger, wider room than mine and the imaging was no better.
All this subjective disagreement - your ears Marc - you decide
I've heard Interstellas in a larger, wider room than mine and the imaging was no better.
All this subjective disagreement - your ears Marc - you decide
I don't agree. If you can give them the separation in the shot above and mount 4 bass horns you have a real life small venue band in fornt of you type presentation.
I've heard Interstellas in a larger, wider room than mine and the imaging was no better.
All this subjective disagreement - your ears Marc - you decide
You don't need 4. 2 bass horns are sufficient. Tried the difference between 6 and 2. Even the guy at the factory told us 2 are enough. They do 6 for show.
Also I meant the size example the other way. Interstellar might be fine in your room and a bigger one, but full range and amphi won't be fine in a smaller room. In fact I have heard the omega and the amphi in the same room with the same electronics, and though amphi had better bass, omega just fitted in better. Even the owner, who is the German distro, said he plays the omega in his room, not amphi. The room was again 6m long. Amphi are not supposed to be better speakers than omega, they are just made for a bigger room, hence the price difference is not much. The designer himself plays omega in his.
I had the Grands when they came out. They're very difficult to drive and and 6 channels of powerful high end amplification cost a ton of money. Setup was complex and the active Krell sub that came with it was a POS. The Divas are a better speaker IMO.
david
Nearly bought Tassos's Amphi's directly from him years ago,
The AG guys were just being nice I reckon though I am not saying I really know. I think 4 is a good number - bass driver's the height of the horns.
Course Marc could get some super Divas made. Jon was considering doing some for someone a while back.
Similar threads
