Apogee Full range
- Thread starter bonzo75
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From what I gather, the Divas are more neutral than the Duettas, w/somewhat less characterful/full bass, a bigger o/all sound, but harder to drive (meaning the Duettas more affinity w/tubes, the Divas more SS).
At this point in time, the Duettas are the more logical choice, in tht £20k sweet spot, amenable to my Nats etc. For me I'm happy to have a more characterful sound than something a bit more ruler flat, even if more superior in some ways.
This is likely to be the comparison point v Trios and new Zus.
At this point in time, the Duettas are the more logical choice, in tht £20k sweet spot, amenable to my Nats etc. For me I'm happy to have a more characterful sound than something a bit more ruler flat, even if more superior in some ways.
This is likely to be the comparison point v Trios and new Zus.
And the full range will smoke your tube driven duetta if they have a pure aluminium ribbon. Just saying you might be looking at the wrong things. I just heard studio grands (smaller, not grands) with Lamm m1.1 as well as a 30w KR audio, and project sphinx amp with acoustats. One thing is for certain, amps play such a small part compared to the speaker. There are many good amps. Keep out the wrong ones and you are fine. Speaker, and a good TT. If you want to go digital, just one option. A 1k used acoustat with a good TT will be better than many 50k set ups. You can then slowly upgrade your amps as budget allows
So, yr recommendation is Apogee Graz Full Range w/SS or hybrid amps (since these are planars def not amenable to be driven by tubes)?
I relation to Trios w/Basshorns?
I relation to Trios w/Basshorns?
Hi Lloyd,
For me the two best Apogees were the Diva and the FR, still prefer the Diva over the FR for overall balance. Apogee hit the sweet spot between sound quality and power needs with these models that imo missed with some of their other designs. The FR & Diva are very close sonically, though I would say that the FR is a bit more transparent but also a more difficult load, so in the real world the Diva would end up sounding better balanced. The smaller Duetta & Scintilla weren't properly balanced and with Scintilla having somewhat of a disjointed bass from the rest of the speaker. I think that it was because of the very difficult load it presented to the amplifier more than the speaker itself.
I would categorically call the Grands by far the worst speakers I ever owned and am EMBARASSED
!!! to say that I went whole hog on that system. $100k+ for 6 channels of Krell Audio Standards, the most disgusting sounding amplifiers I ever owned, add to that the horrible sounding KRC-HR pre, $80k-$90k of MIT wiring, the sources and you're in the half million dollar territory for a sound that at best was nauseating! The Grand was truly the Frankenstein (Apogee!) MONSTER. Starting with the disgusting DAX crossover that they had cooked up, complicated software on top of undependable hardware, easy to crash and impossiblet to tweak correctly. This xover already destroyed the sound by itself but the ridiculousness of the Grand's design didn't stop there. The $hitty Krell active subs were a sad joke sonically and served as shakers under the tall ribbon panels. They also raised the main panels above the listening position, your ears are lined up with the subs instead of the panels in this speaker. I just can't believe that the same person who designed the other Apogees had a hand in the Grand Caca! Whoever said "ignorance is bliss" hadn't heard this system!david
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No, trios first. But even there audionote was nothing compared to airtight and the AG SS amps. And that is the view of 4 - 5 people who were there, not just me. All I am saying is keep the wrong amps out, but to choose a duetta over a FR because duetta can probably be run by SETs is a silly way to go about it
Hi Lloyd,
For me the two best Apogees were the Diva and the FR, still prefer the Diva over the FR for overall balance. Apogee hit the sweet spot between sound quality and power needs with these models that imo missed with some of their other designs. The FR & Diva are very close sonically, though I would say that the FR is a bit more transparent but also a more difficult load, so in the real world the Diva would end up sounding better balanced. The smaller Duetta & Scintilla weren't properly balanced and with Scintilla having somewhat of a disjointed bass from the rest of the speaker. I think that it was because of the very difficult load it presented to the amplifier more than the speaker itself.
I would categorically call the Grands by far the worst speakers I ever owned and am EMBARASSED
david
Wow! That is certainly clear enough! Thank you...I will be sure to try to hear the Divas or Full Range.
I hope I scared you off the Grand Caca for good Lloyd
. The original Diva & FR where great speakers as are your Wilsons, good thing about your amps is that you can try them all.david
I like the full honesty. The previous sentence is honest with NO double meaning. You have to be careful around here.
zz.
zz.
Hi Lloyd,
For me the two best Apogees were the Diva and the FR, still prefer the Diva over the FR for overall balance. Apogee hit the sweet spot between sound quality and power needs with these models that imo missed with some of their other designs. The FR & Diva are very close sonically, though I would say that the FR is a bit more transparent but also a more difficult load, so in the real world the Diva would end up sounding better balanced. The smaller Duetta & Scintilla weren't properly balanced and with Scintilla having somewhat of a disjointed bass from the rest of the speaker. I think that it was because of the very difficult load it presented to the amplifier more than the speaker itself.
I would categorically call the Grands by far the worst speakers I ever owned and am EMBARASSED
david
I hope I scared you off the Grand Caca for good Lloyd
david
Thanks, David! Yes! Good and scared! I remain extremely happy with my Wilsons and have appreciated your advice regarding them as well.
Jason Bloom told me that the Diva was an "improved" speaker over the original full-range, especially with regard to phase angle issues in the midrange>bass crossover. He did say that there were tradeoffs in ultimate transparency (due to the full-range's directly-driven ribbons), but that the Diva was an easier speaker to drive. I thought that the Diva sounded better on cello than the full-ranges, but that may have been a set-up issue on my full-ranges. It pays to be careful when accusing a product when it may be our own failing that causes a perceived problem.
Lee
Lee
Unlike ddk who had the chance to play with the Grand, I only played with the Mini Grand (Stages + cone subwoofer), but I also found the Stages performed better on their own. I just couldn't get the Stages and subwoofer to sound coherent together.
I have never owned the Studio Grand, but had the chance to audition it in my friend’s place and found similar coherence problem.
I have never owned the Studio Grand, but had the chance to audition it in my friend’s place and found similar coherence problem.
Thank you; you are astute to point that out.
I personally feel that people should spend their time being offended by the 100 to 200 elitists that control the world & are raping us. OOPS, that might be considered politics [???]. Please do NOT show this post to anyone.
zz.
I personally feel that people should spend their time being offended by the 100 to 200 elitists that control the world & are raping us. OOPS, that might be considered politics [???]. Please do NOT show this post to anyone.
zz.
Yes I agree. If hearing an honest impression of an audio system is going to require years of therapy to get over, perhaps audio isn't for you. I'd suggest total isolation in a remote cabin, far far away from other human beings.
I realize the post is not directed at me seeing as I do not need years of therapy, BUT how did you know about my remote cabin? I like being a 98% hermit.
I like being a 98% hermit.
I realize the post is not directed at me seeing as I do not need years of therapy, BUT how did you know about my remote cabin?
Ha ha! I was just playing devil's advocate before the hoard of protests come pouring in. Since whether or not opinions like this should be allowed to be expressed on this forum have been up for debate lately.
I'm having a hard time figuring out if it's an issue of what's been said, or who says it?
May we please continue to discuss the speakers and desist from the unnecessary back&forth personal jabs? Our world is so filled with everybody getting offended by everything, that we don't need to promote that here. Unless another member asks you to pay for his system, there's no reason to have such vehement emotions about AUDIO.
Lee
Lee
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