Apogee Full range
- Thread starter bonzo75
- Start date
Marc - the Martin Colloms review basically says valves give the best SQ with Duettas, Krell's the highest volume capability.
I think we're running a pretty deluded model of the real world if the Omega is judged much easier to drive than a Duetta. Same sensitivity and same impedance.
I have a friend who is SET crazy. I don't share his enthusiasm but I do think the Transmitters are very good on Omegas.
I don't think you'll go for either anyway. Trios + bass horns I reckon.
I think we're running a pretty deluded model of the real world if the Omega is judged much easier to drive than a Duetta. Same sensitivity and same impedance.
I have a friend who is SET crazy. I don't share his enthusiasm but I do think the Transmitters are very good on Omegas.
I don't think you'll go for either anyway. Trios + bass horns I reckon.
Bonzo, we get to our destination points in different ways. Your information has been very valuable, otherwise I wouldn't even have taken the bait and contributed to this thread.
I already know what I don't particularly want to invest in further, standard box spkrs. Zus give me something unique I haven't heard in others, but no doubt I may be cutting myself off from interesting options like Magico, Wilson, Giya, Rockport. Similarly, maybe I should investigate JBL Everests. I certainly could do w/all these being on a to-do list, but I'd need to be prepared to go SS again. Burned my bridges there, incl Full Range FR (and after reading the complex multi-amping/filter and x'over boxes, and reports on poor SQ at low volumes, I'm happy to not consider FR)...
Justin, yes it makes total sense to assume if Transmitters good w/Omegas/Amphtrions, they'll be good w/Graz Duettas. There's still a hint of jump into the unknown w/amp-spkr synergy, but yr natural confidence in the pairing is putting my mind more at rest. For me, a major deciding factor will be how coherent and alive yr sound is at low levels, my Zus and horns exemplary at this aspect.
Any how, academic until I get to hear things at yours, keep in contact.
Re Trios/B'horns, yes you're prob right, but I'd like the major headache of a 3-way decision - Zu Experiences v Trios/B'horns v Oakey Graz Duetta Sigs w/Nat Transmitters.
I already know what I don't particularly want to invest in further, standard box spkrs. Zus give me something unique I haven't heard in others, but no doubt I may be cutting myself off from interesting options like Magico, Wilson, Giya, Rockport. Similarly, maybe I should investigate JBL Everests. I certainly could do w/all these being on a to-do list, but I'd need to be prepared to go SS again. Burned my bridges there, incl Full Range FR (and after reading the complex multi-amping/filter and x'over boxes, and reports on poor SQ at low volumes, I'm happy to not consider FR)...
Justin, yes it makes total sense to assume if Transmitters good w/Omegas/Amphtrions, they'll be good w/Graz Duettas. There's still a hint of jump into the unknown w/amp-spkr synergy, but yr natural confidence in the pairing is putting my mind more at rest. For me, a major deciding factor will be how coherent and alive yr sound is at low levels, my Zus and horns exemplary at this aspect.
Any how, academic until I get to hear things at yours, keep in contact.
Re Trios/B'horns, yes you're prob right, but I'd like the major headache of a 3-way decision - Zu Experiences v Trios/B'horns v Oakey Graz Duetta Sigs w/Nat Transmitters.
Definitely. All part of the fun. Go to Munich Hi-End in May next year and give yourself something more to think about.
Oops MC review was 1988.
Justin, not QUITE accurate to say Colloms liked tubes (alone) - that ARC D-125 in the test I believe is a hybrid amp, and that would correlate to maybe an Ypsilon Aelius being equivalent choice. Or Lamm hybrid. These are the two that Bonzo feels would sound best suited to the Omegas and Amphytrions too.
I was going to say "???", being a dumb hick and all that, but I see he's hitting his head. Oh, I get it. It's like some "relationships", in real life and online. They can be REALLY hard work.
Anyhow, your nuggets of info all very valuable, as are others. Good to see lots of information and opinions being contributed.
The D125's output stage was entirely valve - 8 6550s to give 110 Watts. It had a JFET driver stage. JFETs are pretty nice sounding devices but the power comes from valves.
Justin, this is probably going to be where I decide if I swing in favour of the Oakey Graz Duettas, assuming Transmitters a good match dynamically. Will they have good coherence and tone saturation at lower levels too, as Zus and AGs do? Or will the temptation always be to turn the wick up. Now, I realise their lack of distortion, dipole radiation and no box colouration, will mean that music turns on a dime and as such will not subjectively seem as loud/distorted at a given volume compared to box spkrs, a good thing in my book. But will tone, energy and density be there at late nt levels, or will things seem a bit anaemic or distant? This may be the defining thing for me, if I love the presentation otherwise, feeling it on a par/in advance, of my Zus and AGs.
Fascinating. Helping me a lot w/these "virtual" doubts. I'm sure you understand where I'm coming from. The Nat Transmitters should handily match/outpace that amp I'd hope, and by all accounts the new Graz stuff is a tad easier to drive/more benign, esp w/Jon starting w/more powerful magnets.
Remaining caveat then, is playing music at more relaxed, lower levels. I've heard spkrs that I loved at high outputs like the Kharmas, which just became like wallpaper at gentler volumes. Are these the same?
Sure, Justin, I'm just thinking out aloud.
Colloms' reviews are a masterclass in clarity, brevity, and lack of hyperbole (Roy Gregory/Peter B, take note), and he does address a lot of attributes of the the Duettas, potential shortcomings, and critically my issues w/possible lack of energy at low levels. According to him, there are none, ie they sound consistent up and down the volume dial. Excellent.
So, unlike the FR, the Duettas are much more SET-friendly, and have fewer issues at lower levels. This really does rule out FR for me personally.
Proof of the pudding will be in the listening...over to you Justin
.
Colloms' reviews are a masterclass in clarity, brevity, and lack of hyperbole (Roy Gregory/Peter B, take note), and he does address a lot of attributes of the the Duettas, potential shortcomings, and critically my issues w/possible lack of energy at low levels. According to him, there are none, ie they sound consistent up and down the volume dial. Excellent.
So, unlike the FR, the Duettas are much more SET-friendly, and have fewer issues at lower levels. This really does rule out FR for me personally.
Proof of the pudding will be in the listening...over to you Justin
.Duettas are SET friendly?
http://www.stereophile.com/content/apogee-duetta-ii-loudspeaker-measurements#b6x1SJ1VO640ItJX.97
they are 80db sensitive.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/apogee-duetta-ii-loudspeaker-measurements#b6x1SJ1VO640ItJX.97
they are 80db sensitive.
Yep, it doesn't look great viewed that way, but I believe the true figure is closer to mid/late 80s dB/1W efficiency (Graz uses stronger magnets than the original models, and the whole has been re engineered w/greater efficiency in mind), and in effect is higher since planars are practically louder than cones esp over a greater listening distance w/the larger surface area of transducer.
IME SETs are a pipe dream in this context, even high powered tube amps don't really drive the Apogees properly. At one point I had two pairs of Manley Ichibans on the Divas and later tried a pair of ARC Ref 600s, sound was very pleasant the Manleys but neither one drove the speakers anywhere near what the Levinson 33s or Lamm 2.1s did. My suggestion is whatever Apogee/tube amp combination one is contemplating to at least try a high current ss amp with the speaker to understand what you're giving up. Apogees are capable of a lot more than just nice sound.
david
Dave, that's not going to happen. I already have two alternatives that synergise perfectly w/SETs, my Zus, and horns, both of which in the right setup can be superb. Having discovered late in my upgrading career the sheer beauty and hypnotic quality of SETs, I'm damned if I'm going to ditch them now.
I'm still going to investigate the Graz Duettas of User211, but I very much take yr point that the physics of this match are a challenge LOL. However Justin has run Duettas w/SETs, and I'll take his experience at face value.
My proposed room may end up being a lot smaller than what I've been considering before, and again this will influence my choice.
I'm still going to investigate the Graz Duettas of User211, but I very much take yr point that the physics of this match are a challenge LOL. However Justin has run Duettas w/SETs, and I'll take his experience at face value.
My proposed room may end up being a lot smaller than what I've been considering before, and again this will influence my choice.
Last edited:
The Duetta's are planars, typical sensitivity numbers taken at 1m can be misleading. In his Duettta Signature review Martin Colloms reported that when listened at 3 m distance the Duetta operates at the equivalent of 86dB/W.
Similar threads
