AppleTV X - I am playing with something new

[Zeotrope]

I would not expect an audio improvement with 18.2. Did Apple mention this? What version did you have before?
It could be the act of rebooting the ATV that improved it. I restart mine daily.

 

[durian]

Was having TVOS 18.1. The 18.2 upgrade probably did a reboot to the ATVX. I never turn off the ATVX as advised by this thread to maintain video/audio quality. The audio improvement for 18.2 was observed over the 20 or so song list that are my daily favourites and the improvement is across the board Not sure any folks here have the same observations.

 

[Zeotrope]

That’s great! I’m going to upgrade as well, thanks for sharing.

I just watched a Kaleidescape movie and then a film on ATVX. The K-scape fans don’t believe me but it’s true: ATVX has sharper images than K-Scape.

 

[eldogo]

That’s great! I’m going to upgrade as well, thanks for sharing.

I just watched a Kaleidescape movie and then a film on ATVX. The K-scape fans don’t believe me but it’s true: ATVX has sharper images than K-Scape.

You think so? I haven’t experienced a Kaleidescape before but very curious about how the ATVX stacks up against it.

 

[Zeotrope]

You think so? I haven’t experienced a Kaleidescape before but very curious about how the ATVX stacks up against it.

Yes. I own both a Strato S and ATVX. I am using a LPS and clean power (Denali v2) for the Strato, and despite that and the larger file sizes, the ATVX picture is sharper.
Audio is a bit better through the Strato S because it’s uncompressed; but it doesn’t bother me enough to download content on the K-scape. And keep in mind I’m playing back through a very revealing system (Trinnov A32->Nagra HD DAC X->Nagra Ref Pre->Nagra Ref Amps->high sensitivity horns.

Against a regular ATV, the K-scape was superior. But with the ATVX, I almost never use the Strato.

Kaleidescape is unfortunately run by narrow minded individuals who don’t understand the negative effects of digital noise/jitter. I have reached out the current CEO and past founder/CEO. They simply don’t want to learn.

Bottom line: the benefits of larger file sizes/reduced compression are not outweighed by the benefits of noise reduction.

 

[Zeotrope]

I would be surprised if K-Scape is around in 5-10 years. They make no money on content (according to the founder). All of their profit comes from HW sales. That’s fine, but they also don’t make proper hardware.

The latest HW update is ridiculous: the new feature is Dolby Vision, which is basically completely useless.
And it requires different file types and library updates. The menus no longer display in 4K either. It’s a mess!

What they should do is take a page from Taiko’s book and built the “Extreme of video”; but then Chris has already done that. And you can’t beat ATV for content.

 

[jbrrp1]

@Xymox I'm curious about the expected longevity of the Apple TV X that you make. It's a decent investment for a video source (something I don't usually prioritize), and I want to be sure about how long one could anticipate ROI on it. Can it be undermined by a change that Apple makes? Or can it be protected against any "updates" that might kill it? What sort of lifespan should the hardware have? TIA!

 

[Zeotrope]

You didn’t ask me but having an owner’s opinion may be of value:
There are no guarantees in tech. DartZeel is perhaps out of business. I believe Kaleidescape will not be around in 5 years.
That said, Apple TV is the product least likely to change over time. The newest generation is in fact a step down when it comes to A/V quality, and was launched with the objective of cost reduction.
I don’t see why Apple would “brick it”. They might, but again, the risk is much lower than with K-scape.

 

[jbrrp1]

But, could Apple "brick it" with a misguided update? Is that possible (i.e. a risk)?

 

[7ryder]

But, could Apple "brick it" with a misguided update? Is that possible (i.e. a risk)?

If they did, all of that generation of ATV would be bricked, not just our ATVXs.

 

[jbrrp1]

Fair points, to be sure. After getting burned by Roon auto-"updating" my old Antipodes DX server into no longer functioning, I'm wary of outside parties compelling changes I don't seek. So, is there a way to opt out of Apple updates for the TV X?

 

[Zeotrope]

But, could Apple "brick it" with a misguided update? Is that possible (i.e. a risk)?

Apple can’t distinguish between the ATVX and the original ATV. All the changes are to the power supply

 

[Zeotrope]

Fair points, to be sure. After getting burned by Roon auto-"updating" my old Antipodes DX server into no longer functioning, I'm wary of outside parties compelling changes I don't seek. So, is there a way to opt out of Apple updates for the TV X?

Yes for sure. I have auto updates set to off.

 

[eldogo]

Quick question, has anyone upgraded/changed the power cable for the ATVX? Any difference in AV quality?

 

[Low325]

Quick question, has anyone upgraded/changed the power cable for the ATVX? Any difference in AV quality?

No on the cable. But to my eyes when plugged into a conditioner I see a noticeable difference in saturation.

 

[Jhaus22]

Long time lurker but figured I’d help out on the debate between Apple TV gen 2 vs gen 3.

After researching this thread I purchased an Apple TV 2169 from eBay to compare to my fairly new gen 3 Apple TV.

Apple TV is plugged in using a cullen cable c7 into an Audioquest niagra 1000 which is plugged in with an AQ Thunder cable. I use a DH Labs Ethernet cable and the hdmi is a maple shade hdmi 2.0 version 3+.

Switching back and forth, the gen two easily bests the gen 3. I wasn’t sure if I had bias towards the gen2 due to what I have read, so I did a blind test on my gf considering both boxes look the same. I started with the gen 3 and we watched about 5 min of a few different shows all streaming. Then I went with gen 2; immediately on start-up my gf mentioned it already looks better on the Home Screen. After putting on a show, she made up her mind in less than a few seconds gen 2 was better.

Engineers designed a great device only for the bean counters to come in and cheap it out.

 

[msimanyi]

@Jhaus22 Now you need to try an AppleTV X!

The comment a few weeks ago about video quality vs Kaleidescape is valid in my experience, and the audio is only slightly better on KScape - barely noticeable. Chris has built a really impressive machine here, and that's a comment from a prior skeptic.

 

[thresholdman]

I would be surprised if K-Scape is around in 5-10 years. They make no money on content (according to the founder). All of their profit comes from HW sales. That’s fine, but they also don’t make proper hardware.

The latest HW update is ridiculous: the new feature is Dolby Vision, which is basically completely useless.
And it requires different file types and library updates. The menus no longer display in 4K either. It’s a mess!

What they should do is take a page from Taiko’s book and built the “Extreme of video”; but then Chris has already done that. And you can’t beat ATV for content.

Kaleidescape is in the process of updating their libraries. There is quite a bit of Dolby Vision content at this point. I would think that the studios will be moving away from physical media in the future. The business and technical model Kaleidescape is using is likely be the only way to get UHD content which is not streamed in the future.

 

[Zeotrope]

What Kaleidoscape needs to do is let Chris create an “X” version of the Strato. I have spoken to the CEO and founder but unfortunately they don’t get it.
I highly doubt they will be around in 5-10 years.
The founder already mentioned they don’t make a profit on content, only on hardware. There is only so long they can continue to sell overpriced hardware with limited content and less convenience. Apple (and others) are going to kill them.
You may see an “Apple TV Pro” from Apple to address the quality shortcomings in the Gen 3 ATV.

 

[Xymox]

Wowee... I missed a bunch of important comments... Its 3am here, I will come back tomorrow and cover some of this.

BUT I have something maybe kinda fun... Sorta educational

What I am doing in digital systems with both the ATVX and the Switch X is radically different then what others are doing on a core engineering level..

One of those differences required me to make my own test equipment because no one makes it.

I cover a lot of stuff and explain power supplies, regulation, switchers and show all this using test equipment and explain in very easy to follow ways. My use of a active load to do engineering in products seems pretty unique and this is one reason I am cranking out these devices.

Its a play list, 4 parts. Its over a hour in total, but with 4 segments its easier to get thru

Ive just done a new version of my active load. This took me 2 months of 6-10hrs a day work. So I can now see even cleaner..

If your a engineer making audio gear and/or power supplies, I recommend watching the videos as well..

And before you ask, I am not going to identify the "high end linear supply" I test in video 2.. Hehehe.. Its not professional.