Aqua Formula - new upgrade, retrofittable!

[Mike Lavigne]

I can't see there being any advantage to that, isn't DXD btwn 256 and 512?

dxd is PCM. 352/24 bit or 32 bit and 384/24 bit or 32 bit.

512 is 8xdsd, 256 is 4xdsd.....commonly known as Quad dsd.

my Formula dac upsampled everything (but only PCM) to dxd (either 352 (44, 88, 176) or 384 (48, 96, 192) depending whether it started as a 44 or 48 multiple format). you could not input dsd at all (which has now changed with this update or the newest versions of the Formula). so to hear dsd you needed to then have server software that would upsample any dsd to PCM first. in my case I had the SGM and HQP upsample all resolutions of my dsd to dxd.

 

[abeidrov]

It really depends on a given DAC abilities, quality of a recording and personal preference. There is no rule rule that DSD512 is better, than DXD or vise versa

 

[Mike Lavigne]

It really depends on a given DAC abilities, quality of a recording and personal preference. There is no rule rule that DSD512 is better, than DXD or vise versa

or.......the server's software.

HQ Player on the SGM found additional performance with upsampling to 512 for certain dacs, one of which was the Golden Gate when it got it's chipless 512 engine. supposedly it pushed the noise further away from the music.

agree that sometimes the higher sampling rates were nosier. it was a combination of the dac and server and software which was best. for awhile the Nagra HD dac only capable of only 2xdsd/dsd128 was superior to the GG at the higher sampling rate. as the software improved the particular advantage of particular dacs changed.

 

[asiufy]

So this upgrade is not specific to impvts in SQ to Formula's previous optimal upsampling option of DXD?
Nothing impvd here?
It's just the new ability to go as high as 512?

No, there are improvements in both hardware and software, that go way beyond sampling rates. New USB board, new FPGA code, etc.
With the upgrade, it'll do PCM up to 768 and up to Quad DSD.

 

[spiritofmusic]

So, what's the story w the Formula?
For those who own it or know it well, what does it excel at? There are some possibilities to get it at a good price, but few opportunities to audition it.
I've had some discussion w Mike Lavigne and Alex/Asiufy which has been positive, just curious re others' experiences.

 

[sbo6]

So, what's the story w the Formula?
For those who own it or know it well, what does it excel at? There are some possibilities to get it at a good price, but few opportunities to audition it.
I've had some discussion w Mike Lavigne and Alex/Asiufy which has been positive, just curious re others' experiences.

I can offer my opinion versus an Esoteric K-03 and overall impressions. To me it broadcasts an immense sound stage, a fantastic sense of air and delicacy and does a great job of tonal accuracy (better than the Esoteric for sure). Having heard several other ladder DACs I'd say it sounds closest to TotalDAC.

 

[Hifi Boy]

Has anyone listened to the new Denafrips Terminator, which is also an R2R DAC?

Seems like it matches the performance of the Aqua Formula based on what 6moons said. Also, the price seems to be less than half of the Formula.

So, I'm wondering whether this is too good to be true.

 

[bonzo75]

Has anyone listened to the new Denafrips Terminator, which is also an R2R DAC?

Seems like it matches the performance of the Aqua Formula based on what 6moons said. Also, the price seems to be less than half of the Formula.

So, I'm wondering whether this is too good to be true.

Ok knowing how Marc thinks this is his mystery dac, same price and also the name of his tone arm, though I doubt he has heard it

 

[spiritofmusic]

Give the boy a prize.
Ked, yes it is indeed.
I haven't heard it.
But plenty have, and the user reports are all highly favourable.
I may well take a punt, what I'm hearing about it is that it favours tonal density and texture over pure transparency, uber detail and imaging, is sympathetic to poorer recordings, and doesn't imprint everything with a tonal "sameness".
This is what I hear from my Eera cdp, so if it's not a million miles away from this signature I'll be very happy.
Additionally I like what I'm hearing about the chief designer and his background and the distributor, Alvin of Vinshine Audio is very helpful with enquiries.
For £4K, if its as good as dozens of user reports say it is, it should be a low risk purchase unheard.

 

[Hifi Boy]

I must say it sounds very promising to me, so I hope to read more reviews on this DAC.

 

[the sound of Tao]

That's cool Marc, I read that review with interest also... but if you are going to be an early adopter and get one I'll wait till you report back. Btw like the look of it (in black) and hoping its musically all that it's reported to be but the brand name Denafrips hardly rolls off the tongue with elegance... but if that's it's absolute worst attribute then at $4k that's not too bad a price to pay. Maybe the p is silent as in swimming pool.

 

[sbo6]

Has anyone listened to the new Denafrips Terminator, which is also an R2R DAC?

Seems like it matches the performance of the Aqua Formula based on what 6moons said. Also, the price seems to be less than half of the Formula.

So, I'm wondering whether this is too good to be true.

He also said owners think it's better than the dCS Debussy and MSB Platinum IV. If it favors tonal density over detail retrieval and that's noticeable with the reviewer's $2K WFS preamp I'd bet it's a significant difference with higher $ systems. Who knows....

 

[spiritofmusic]

Sbo6, I don't think it's a choice btwn tonal density and texture (Terminator) OR detail and transparency (Formula).
The impression I'm getting from Sjraen's review is that there is good amounts of the latter, but the Terminator is more fleshed out than the Formula, more accommodating of sharp, lean recordings, and doesn't apply euphonic bloom to recordings rendering them mostly homogenous and sanitised.
This is v much what I want from a dac, esp my first venture into standalone dac/streamer options.
And user reports continue to be impressive, with a number of owners trading their apparently higher class units for this one.
This is as good a measure for blind purchase as I can see.

 

[asiufy]

Sbo6, I don't think it's a choice btwn tonal density and texture (Terminator) OR detail and transparency (Formula).
The impression I'm getting from Sjraen's review is that there is good amounts of the latter, but the Terminator is more fleshed out than the Formula, more accommodating of sharp, lean recordings, and doesn't apply euphonic bloom to recordings rendering them mostly homogenous and sanitised.
This is v much what I want from a dac, esp my first venture into standalone dac/streamer options.
And user reports continue to be impressive, with a number of owners trading their apparently higher class units for this one.
This is as good a measure for blind purchase as I can see.

I know it's very tempting to root for the underdog, and to believe a chinese DAC out of nowhere is better than (sometimes far) more established brands. I've seen enough of those kind of things to make me a bit of a sceptic...
I just have to say that none of the Aqua DACs I've heard do the "euphonic bloom rendering them mostly homogeous and sanitised" thing. I know because I've heard DACs that do that, so did Mike L., and before he went for the best, the Aqua is what stood out, mostly because it DIDN'T color things in that way and to that extreme.
That said, I'd be curious to hear/read more impressions of the Denafrips.


cheers,
alex

 

[Hifi Boy]

He also said owners think it's better than the dCS Debussy and MSB Platinum IV. If it favors tonal density over detail retrieval and that's noticeable with the reviewer's $2K WFS preamp I'd bet it's a significant difference with higher $ systems. Who knows....

Hehe, I didn't catch that part. I would prefer that 6moon's reviews were more to the point and would not use such picturesque language most of the time.

Anyways, I guess that for us, it would be great if Mike could get his hands on the Terminator. Seeing as how he actually had Formula as well, I think he would be in the best position to tell us what exactly we're dealing with here. Not that I'm doubting Srajan, because the fact is, its not like they are giving the Blue Moon award to every other thing they review.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Alex, sorry if I conveyed that. Sjraen's words were that the Terminator was good at tonal variation btwn recordings, this not in comparison to the Formula.
Where Sjraen did compare the Terminator more favourably over the Formula was in concluding the Aqua highlighted space and transparency more over tonal density which was the forte of the Terminator, but not saying the Terminator lacked air, and not falling into the trap other dense sounding dacs do in applying heavy doses of gloop over every recording.

 

[sbo6]

Sbo6, I don't think it's a choice btwn tonal density and texture (Terminator) OR detail and transparency (Formula).
The impression I'm getting from Sjraen's review is that there is good amounts of the latter, but the Terminator is more fleshed out than the Formula, more accommodating of sharp, lean recordings, and doesn't apply euphonic bloom to recordings rendering them mostly homogenous and sanitised.
This is v much what I want from a dac, esp my first venture into standalone dac/streamer options.
And user reports continue to be impressive, with a number of owners trading their apparently higher class units for this one.
This is as good a measure for blind purchase as I can see.

SoM, here's a quote from the review, "Ultimate transparency opposes ultimate body. It's bone versus flesh. Our Formula sat closer to the transparency polarity. By definition, this meant a slightly leaner more lit-up lighter presentation. The Terminator moved over a bit to the opposite pole. This included more voluptuousness and weight. Quite by design, it mellowed whatever glare the Formula couldn't exorcise on poor productions. Audiophilia calls that more forgiving. It means that more of your bad recordings sound better. Only radicalized audiophiles call that irrelevant. "

In my experience listening to many system of all price ranges, one thing is certain to me - as you climb the system price chain small differences become much more apparent. For me, I don't want artificial voluptuous sound, I want realism. It's one of the reasons I don't like tube DACs - I don't need tubes to color the source.

That said, this DAC seems to be a real bargain whether it "beats" the Aqua or not. And I think that's fantastic for our hobby. As I've said over and over, a digital source is the best bang for your sonic $ and the curve just keeps going up

 

[spiritofmusic]

Alex, sorry if I conveyed that. Sjraen's words were that the Terminator was good at tonal variation btwn recordings, this not in comparison to the Formula.
Where Sjraen did compare the Terminator more favourably over the Formula was in concluding the Aqua highlighted space and transparency more over tonal density which was the forte of the Terminator, but not saying the Terminator lacked air, and not falling into the trap other dense sounding dacs do in applying heavy doses of gloop over every recording.
---
Alex, the way I see it is that I've spent a fortune on my system over the last two decades, and I'm this Johnny Come Lately to streaming, approaching with reluctance.
If the Terminator dac, Innuos Zenith streamer gets me into Tidal at a quality level, but affordable ticket, I'm in.

 

[sbo6]

Hehe, I didn't catch that part. I would prefer that 6moon's reviews were more to the point and would not use such picturesque language most of the time.

Anyways, I guess that for us, it would be great if Mike could get his hands on the Terminator. Seeing as how he actually had Formula as well, I think he would be in the best position to tell us what exactly we're dealing with here. Not that I'm doubting Srajan, because the fact is, its not like they are giving the Blue Moon award to every other thing they review.

I'd be more than happy to compare it to my Formula. I don't have Mike's system but I'd rank mine over the 6 moon's system. Ship it out!

 

[asiufy]

Alex, the way I see it is that I've spent a rim on my system over the last two decades, and I'm this Johnny Come Lately to streaming, approaching with reluctance.
If the Terminator dac, Innuos Zenith streamer gets me into Tidal at a quality level, but affordable ticket, I'm in.

+1 my friend! If that DAC turns out to be even half as good as the Aqua, it's still a bargain, so go for it
And again, as you've realized, now what's most important is to get you on that Roon/Tidal train. Better SQ can always be arranged