Are Integrated Amps making a comeback?

Johnny Vinyl

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May 16, 2010
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It doesn't matter what shop I go into, I seem to be bumping into IA's at every turn. I don't think I can recall a time when they were more prevelant.
 
Would make sense as consumers look to downsizing the space taken by audio/video equipment, there would be a large market for such when considering modern houses and room space (especially here in Europe), or the general modern views on home design and what fits in with modern decor.
Cheers
Orb
 
So very true Rich!
 
I also think that its only been in the past 10 years that integrateds have been able to keep up with separates and not be embarrassed by them.

Levinson.. DarTZeel... YBA....
 
I also think that its only been in the past 10 years that integrateds have been able to keep up with separates and not be embarrassed by them.

Levinson.. DarTZeel... YBA....

ARC...Simaudio, and no doubt many others. It's an affordable way to get into the higher end and I think that's a huge appeal for many consumers.
 
If proper engineering is applied to them then it would be easy to make integrateds that were quite superior to separates, for the simple reason that the designer has proper control over all the elements in the amplification area of the chain. As soon as you add a weakness to the whole, by requiring an external, detachable cable to connect elements then you open Pandora's box, all very well if you enjoy constant fiddling and extra expense, but not the smart way to get good sound.

Why integrateds typically are poorer is that manufacturers are not dumb: they make more money by selling multiple units, so the last thing they will do is engineer a "downmarket" integrated to be better than their more expensive separates. The other problem is that using conventional techniques of decent sized power supplies means that the integrated unit will become pretty heavy, not a good selling point for a lot of people ...

Frank
 
I have never seen an integrated with "respectable" power ratings. But I have always liked A LOT of power to control the speaker during dynamic swings in the music.
 
I also think that its only been in the past 10 years that integrateds have been able to keep up with separates and not be embarrassed by them.

Levinson.. DarTZeel... YBA....

Hmmmmm.....I think those are more exceptions to the rule ;) And those units don't come cheap!

I'd add, don't expect an integrated amp to drive difficult loads.
 
I can think of very few linear amp integrated beasties but there are a few out there now that do 300wpc or more into 4 ohms. All of them are pretty large. Kind of defeats the purpose for most.

I was a bit of an integrated junkie for a while. My wife and I had this tiny bedroom in our old place where I had either mini-monitors ( quite a few nice and very affordable ones) or SMGcs (because there was nothing for the babies to poke). I loved playing around with integrateds. I bought used and sold. Hardly a penny lost come to think about it. In the end I found happy new homes for those I kept longest. My favorite was a chinese made ASL 300B integrated that I decked out with Tungsol GTBs, a mullard rectifier and 1960's Western Electrics. They were a joy to read a book by.
 
Accuphase made from its beginning till today some very fine integrated amps. I was fortunate to have and used an Accuphase E202 their first IA that I used for years, it is now in storage. It was speced for 100 watts but I believe that we measured it at over 125 watts at clipping into 8 ohms and it may have reached about 196 watts into 4 ohms at clipping. This machine is of the same vintage as Rogers C200 and P300 amps. It is and their later IA are of similar quality to their separates.

Rich
 
All of them are pretty large. Kind of defeats the purpose for most.
But if the "purpose" is to create good sound that's exactly what you may need. Horses for courses ...

Of course, that's where Tim's actives solution comes roaring into the picture, to the rescue: dump a whole lot of extraneous bits and pieces in one one fell swoop, and gain superior sound with no effort ...

Frank
 
I am not sure if the full active solution being internal to the speaker (external active electronics are available but then this breaks the ergonomic-less boxes argument for purchasing) is a practical idea for audio hobby-fans type consumers, not due to space but from other factors such as if wanting to sell the speakers, speakers have a problem or need maintaining, locked in on specific component-amp,etc.

The biggest issue for many consumers is that of then being without an amp if the speakers are to be exchanged, auditioning other speakers, if problems happen IMO and this can be either the electronic side or the speaker.
Yes everything can work fine for years, but also there are times when they will have minor or major faults, and not everyone keeps same speakers and electronics for over 5 years.

Caveat; Please note I am not discussing sound benefits of actives, which is a seperate focus.
Cheers
Orb
 
I think what's practical and what the audio-hobby wants are two different things. I've wanted to make an active loudspeaker, but my dealers and distributors discourage me from doing that. Hobbyists want the option to change interconnects between their pre and power amplifiers and the loudspeaker cable between the power amp and the loudspeaker.

That current conduit between the power amp and the loudspeaker is a significant problem (even to cable skeptics Romax will do). It would be far easier to use a long balanced interconnect between a preamp with a built-in DAC and/or phonostage and an active loudspeaker, but I don't think that we will see that acceptance in our hobby for a LONG time.

Non-audiophile music lovers, on the other hand, might accept this, and I'm thinking that this may be the way to go to sell to the iPod generation. WiFi high-end active loudspeakers anyone?
 
Hey, why not? The only practical issue with actives is that they need power cords and outlets might not be where you'd want them to be. Since power cords are generally thicker and stiffer they're harder to work with and even harder to hide. Barring that and the unsightliness of extension cords and what not, personally I like the idea.
 
Hey, why not? The only practical issue with actives is that they need power cords and outlets might not be where you'd want them to be. Since power cords are generally thicker and stiffer they're harder to work with and even harder to hide. Barring that and the unsightliness of extension cords and what not, personally I like the idea.

Actually, if you design the power supply correctly, power cords do not need to be thick and stiff at all. The power draw is ALWAYS buffered by the voltage storage in the capacitance of the power supply, and then that is further buffered by the current storage in the inductance of the transformer.
 
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Then there ya go :)
 
I am not sure if the full active solution being internal to the speaker (external active electronics are available but then this breaks the ergonomic-less boxes argument for purchasing) is a practical idea for audio hobby-fans type consumers, not due to space but from other factors such as if wanting to sell the speakers, speakers have a problem or need maintaining, locked in on specific component-amp,etc.

The biggest issue for many consumers is that of then being without an amp if the speakers are to be exchanged, auditioning other speakers, if problems happen IMO and this can be either the electronic side or the speaker.
Yes everything can work fine for years, but also there are times when they will have minor or major faults, and not everyone keeps same speakers and electronics for over 5 years.

Caveat; Please note I am not discussing sound benefits of actives, which is a seperate focus.
Cheers
Orb

If you really buy into the rationale behind going with active systems, these issues become irrelevant. In a truly optimized active system, individual amplifiers are chosen, if not engineered, for individual drivers. "Upgrading" either of those elements would be counter-productive. If I wanted to upgrade, I would want upgrade the system not the amps or speaker. Fortunately, the efficiencies gained by engineering in the synergy between amps and drivers make actives a good enough value that an active upgrade looks pretty good, even compared to simply upgrading high-end passive speakers.

I think I'm still an audiophile in the literal sense of that word, but I'm no longer an audiophile hobbyist in the upgrade/tweak/gearhead sense. The most the owner of actives has to tweak is the source, the pre, the DAC and a couple of cables. The small stuff. And it's not enough for most audiophile hobbyists, I'm afraid.

Tim
 
The most the owner of actives has to tweak is the source, the pre, the DAC and a couple of cables. The small stuff. And it's not enough for most audiophile hobbyists, I'm afraid.
Tim

I've owned two different sets of active speakers. If your thinking isn't limited to outside the box,
there are lots of tweaks, upgrades and mods an active owner can do.
 

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