Audiophile switches and routers may be a waste of money

[AudioHR]

I was quickly told to leave a switch thread because I noted I was no longer experiencing any gains from audiophile switches or stacking switches after I was forced to change my internet from a Ethernet cable to a Eero Mesh router. I had the whole expensive chain like everyone else some time back. LPS to separate Modem and Router. A custom Linear Solution switch feeding my stereo.

Recently I was forced to change. I had no ethernet cable in the new house. I was told by a audiophile to get Eero 6+ mesh routers. They are a wifi device that create a mesh of locations receiving and broadcasting wifi. Each device has 2 ethernt ports on the back. I used one behind my audio server with a short 18 inch Cat 6 jumper to my server.

Thinking about making things better I brought my Linear Solution switch out and plugged it into the Eero, then my server into it. No audible change. I then plugged a Belkin switch into the Eero and the linear solution switch into it and the server into that chain. No change.

The Eero 6+ is a gigabyte device. Maybe being completely isolated from the data utility provides a level of clean that is negating the need for specialty switches.

People with a hard wire available should look into this. I have no way to compare.
FWIW, the setup is to install a modem as usual. Turn off the router function in the modem so it is only a modem. Plug the Eero into it and use an app to configure it. Then drop additional Eero into the house and use the app to connect it to the primary one attached to the modem that is acting as the Router. It tool all of 10 minutes. And I see no issues with sonics.

I used mesh routers for awhile. It was not an Eero 6 but was recommended to me by my dealer, so it was a high gig model. It cleaned up some of the reliability issues I was having with my modem wifi as the mesh router was dedicated to audio. It sounded fine and was I felt an improvement sonically.

Still I was not totally satisfied with the sound and so I hired someone to install an internet cable from my modem to my system downstairs in my walkout. It took a little doing but it got done. The hard wire solution sounds quite a bit better and I haven't had any reliability issues since. Basically I feel it's one of those keep it simple solutions that works.

I don't know anything about switches or the like so I can't comment on that. I suspect that the weak link in my internet is my provider supplied modem. It's worthwhile making sure you have your service provider replace your modem to their latest every so often. My experience is that they won't tell you they have something better but if you ask they will swap it out.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Rex, i think with your new place and all the stages of system and room development you will go thru all sorts of revelations of peeling layers of the onion of discovery. are you now at an (thee) end point? very unlikely. you are at a spot on the path. sounds like a good spot.

any network tweak conclusions are not universal. they are very very anecdotal. just way too many variables. and then we have degrees of system performance effecting how significant the differences really are. and even matters of preference.

i have a Mesh wifi designed by my network engineer son but don't use it for my audio network chain, just wifi in my home/barn. works great for that. not tried it in place of my 'copper' with various LPS powered router, LPS powered Nordost Q-NET switch and LPS powered Rieki Network switch. if i did it would only tell me what my personal result might be. i do know what i heard with every step forward i have made.

is it worth even considering? maybe if i have some spare mental energy at some point might try it. but i'm very skeptical. although i don't know what i don't know. but i'm very happy with my digital music performance as it is. i don't even think about this unless i read a thread about it.

 

[PYP]

I don't know anything about switches or the like so I can't comment on that. I suspect that the weak link in my internet is my provider supplied modem. It's worthwhile making sure you have your service provider replace your modem to their latest every so often. My experience is that they won't tell you they have something better but if you ask they will swap it out.

I check the ISP website from time to time to check for the latest. Seems the latest adds ports and wifi connections. But, as you say, they also upgrade on occasion.

It is also good to re-boot the modem/router from time to time. Not sure why, but if the sound varies from the usual standard a re-boot works in my setup. The streamer also benefits from a re-boot after a Roon update. This may be less mysterious since a re-boot reloads the streamer's OS.

Only my streamer uses a wired connection (in-wall copper). Everything else uses wifi. Not sure how that affects the overall sound, if it does.

 

[Kingrex]

Rebooting may load the software updates.

I thought about putting a LPS to the Eero. It has a mini sd or some sort of port. I could buy a spare PS and cut the cord. Then hardwire to my LPS. I would probably have such great results it would flame the crowd reading the thread.

 

[Iamrael]

Up until 2 months ago didn’t have an Ethernet connection available in my basement, where my AV system resides. Since then I had solar panels installed which although have nothing to do with the system, required that a Ethernet cable be brought into the basement and to its new associated panel, giving me the option to try.
I had been using the Eero mesh for the past two years in the same manner that you have described albeit with a SOtM switch and fmc converter cited between my DIY Euphony/nuc server (with jcat nic) and Nvidia Shield (movie stream).
I strongly recommend that anyone thinking about moving in this direction to try and compare having the added optic isolation in between the Eero (or any other manufacturer’s mesh device for that matter), and your server as I my system benefited greatly.
Now that I have the Ethernet connection as an option what has made the most sense to me is….
Ethernet to Mikrotik converter to SoTM.
Rather than using the Eero as the bridge to the SOtM switch I am using it strictly as an access point plugged into one of the mikrotik’s Ethernet ports which not only electrically isolates but also limits congestion on my streaming due to the way my internet/router, etc., is configured.
All of these devices are in a separate room from all my audio electronics, which is in a separate room from my listening room/theater.
Hopes this all makes sense!

Rebooting may load the software updates.

I thought about putting a LPS to the Eero. It has a mini sd or some sort of port. I could buy a spare PS and cut the cord. Then hardwire to my LPS. I would probably have such great results it would flame the crowd reading the thread.

FWIW I tried a couple different LPSU’s to power the Eero but couldn’t get to work. I tried 19v Farad and Uptone set at 12v and 9v.
I intended to do comparison last night per previous post but got halted after I disconnected the SOtM switch and my server had hard time with new ip address.
I will retry after the Steelers wipe the floor with Browns.

 

[Kingrex]

FWIW I tried a couple different LPSU’s to power the Eero but couldn’t get to work. I tried 19v Farad and Uptone set at 12v and 9v.
I intended to do comparison last night per previous post but got halted after I disconnected the SOtM switch and my server had hard time with new ip address.
I will retry after the Steelers wipe the floor with Browns.

you mean Ducks wipe up Penn!!!!!

 

[Kingrex]

FWIW I tried a couple different LPSU’s to power the Eero but couldn’t get to work. I tried 19v Farad and Uptone set at 12v and 9v.
I intended to do comparison last night per previous post but got halted after I disconnected the SOtM switch and my server had hard time with new ip address.
I will retry after the Steelers wipe the floor with Browns.

Wonder why? How many wires are in the PS.

 

[Tonari]

I was quickly told to leave a switch thread because I noted I was no longer experiencing any gains from audiophile switches or stacking switches after I was forced to change my internet from a Ethernet cable to a Eero Mesh router. I had the whole expensive chain like everyone else some time back. LPS to separate Modem and Router. A custom Linear Solution switch feeding my stereo.

Recently I was forced to change. I had no ethernet cable in the new house. I was told by a audiophile to get Eero 6+ mesh routers. They are a wifi device that create a mesh of locations receiving and broadcasting wifi. Each device has 2 ethernt ports on the back. I used one behind my audio server with a short 18 inch Cat 6 jumper to my server.

Thinking about making things better I brought my Linear Solution switch out and plugged it into the Eero, then my server into it. No audible change. I then plugged a Belkin switch into the Eero and the linear solution switch into it and the server into that chain. No change.

The Eero 6+ is a gigabyte device. Maybe being completely isolated from the data utility provides a level of clean that is negating the need for specialty switches.

People with a hard wire available should look into this. I have no way to compare.
FWIW, the setup is to install a modem as usual. Turn off the router function in the modem so it is only a modem. Plug the Eero into it and use a app to configure it. Then drop additional Eero into the house and use the app to connect it to the primary one attached to the modem that is acting as the Router. It tool all of 10 minutes. And I see no issues with sonics.

The title of the thread is a little provocative. Still you are raising a good point which is that with digital sometimes Less is better. It all boils down to the fact that there are simply too many variables with digital. So many times I've built complicated stacks of network and power equipment with the aim of reducing noise and so-called jitter, only to discover that it's better when I remove a few boxes. It's all part of the game with digital. Thank goodness we have analog turntables to give us some rest

 

[Kingrex]

The title of the thread is a little provocative. Still you are raising a good point which is that with digital sometimes Less is better. It all boils down to the fact that there are simply too many variables with digital. So many times I've built complicated stacks of network and power equipment with the aim of reducing noise and so-called jitter, only to discover that it's better when I remove a few boxes. It's all part of the game with digital. Thank goodness we have analog turntables to give us some rest

I found my TT sounded better once I removed the tone arm and cartridge.

 

[Iamrael]

Wonder why? How many wires are in the PS.

Tres. I was able to get power with the 19v but it wouldn’t boot. Tried all configs with the three wires too.

 

[Kingrex]

Tres. I was able to get power with the 19v but it wouldn’t boot. Tried all configs with the three wires too.

Probably has a chip inside. Something to do with over/something protection.

 

[AudioHR]

The title of the thread is a little provocative. Still you are raising a good point which is that with digital sometimes Less is better. It all boils down to the fact that there are simply too many variables with digital. So many times I've built complicated stacks of network and power equipment with the aim of reducing noise and so-called jitter, only to discover that it's better when I remove a few boxes. It's all part of the game with digital. Thank goodness we have analog turntables to give us some rest

Amen to the analog side, lol!

 

[Downtheline]

I use a ghent cable from my uptone j2s to usb-c for power on an amplifi hd router to then feed taiko switch.

I tried to power my eero 6+ mesh device at its 5v input using the ghent cable but got error light on eero that indicates power supply problem. Confirmed uptone ok. Any thoughs folks?

 

[italia]

Removed my streamer from using an ethernet connection to a Netgear Orbi wifi satellite. Installed 2 LHY FMCs with a low loss fiber optic cable between, to connect streamer to back end FMC via ethernet. The reduction in audible noise from the lack of wifi generated noise and/or inherent galvanic isolation of fiber was quite noticeable

 

[agisthos]

You can also isolate your wi-fi by disabling it in your router, then running a separate wi-fi extender that connects to it via ethernet connection.
By moving the wi-fi outside the router box, this lead to an improvement in transparency.

 

[antigrunge]

In my experience reclocking the LAN link is an absolute must for superior sound and the better the clock the more so…

 

[Newton John]

Audiophiles as a category of organisms spend way too much money on parts of the hi fi chain that don't matter a whole lot (fancy power cords, cables, switches, media servers etc.), as opposed to areas where it matters a great deal (design of the listening room, ensuring adequate mixture of reflecting and absorbing areas, and of course what loudspeakers you use). The listening room and loudspeakers dominate everything else in terms of coloration. Even the same loudspeaker moved from one room to another can sound very different.

The late MIT Professor Amar Gopal Bose did a fabulous presentation of the coloration of the loudspeaker+room that everyone on WBF should watch once in their lives to educate themselves on what really matters in high end audio. Play back a recording on your loudspeaker (any recording, and any loudspeaker, and pretty much any room, cost no object). Record the loudspeaker in that room, and play back the recording of the loudspeaker. Iterate this half a dozen times. At the end what you get is pure noise! The colorations simply dwarfs the original signal, so that all you get at the end is pure noise. Repeat this experiment with a dozen amplifiers connected to each other, or DACs or any component in the hifi chain, gains adjusted appropriately, and I doubt you'll hear any difference at all. That should make it obvious what the real problems in high end audio are.

That is why on a fine quiet summer evening, I like nothing better than sitting in the garden playing my guitar.

Unfortunately, that isn't possible most of the time here in the UK and I can't take the HiFi outside. Therefore, most of us have to do the best we can with the limitations of our living rooms.

The results are never perfect, but set up of loudspeakers in the room, finding an optimum listening position and some DSP go a long way to help. Also, the problems are much diminished with a better source. Hence the audiophile's obsession with the things that you think don't matter. It's not the either or situation that you paint it to be.

 

[Lee]

Audiophiles as a category of organisms spend way too much money on parts of the hi fi chain that don't matter a whole lot (fancy power cords, cables, switches, media servers etc.), as opposed to areas where it matters a great deal (design of the listening room, ensuring adequate mixture of reflecting and absorbing areas, and of course what loudspeakers you use). The listening room and loudspeakers dominate everything else in terms of coloration. Even the same loudspeaker moved from one room to another can sound very different.

The late MIT Professor Amar Gopal Bose did a fabulous presentation of the coloration of the loudspeaker+room that everyone on WBF should watch once in their lives to educate themselves on what really matters in high end audio. Play back a recording on your loudspeaker (any recording, and any loudspeaker, and pretty much any room, cost no object). Record the loudspeaker in that room, and play back the recording of the loudspeaker. Iterate this half a dozen times. At the end what you get is pure noise! The colorations simply dwarfs the original signal, so that all you get at the end is pure noise. Repeat this experiment with a dozen amplifiers connected to each other, or DACs or any component in the hifi chain, gains adjusted appropriately, and I doubt you'll hear any difference at all. That should make it obvious what the real problems in high end audio are.

Link?

 

[Nxgen]

I was quickly told to leave a switch thread because I noted I was no longer experiencing any gains from audiophile switches or stacking switches after I was forced to change my internet from a Ethernet cable to a Eero Mesh router. I had the whole expensive chain like everyone else some time back. LPS to separate Modem and Router. A custom Linear Solution switch feeding my stereo.

Recently I was forced to change. I had no ethernet cable in the new house. I was told by a audiophile to get Eero 6+ mesh routers. They are a wifi device that create a mesh of locations receiving and broadcasting wifi. Each device has 2 ethernt ports on the back. I used one behind my audio server with a short 18 inch Cat 6 jumper to my server.

Thinking about making things better I brought my Linear Solution switch out and plugged it into the Eero, then my server into it. No audible change. I then plugged a Belkin switch into the Eero and the linear solution switch into it and the server into that chain. No change.

The Eero 6+ is a gigabyte device. Maybe being completely isolated from the data utility provides a level of clean that is negating the need for specialty switches.

People with a hard wire available should look into this. I have no way to compare.
FWIW, the setup is to install a modem as usual. Turn off the router function in the modem so it is only a modem. Plug the Eero into it and use a app to configure it. Then drop additional Eero into the house and use the app to connect it to the primary one attached to the modem that is acting as the Router. It tool all of 10 minutes. And I see no issues with sonics.

Please go read what I posted under one of the other forum threads regarding Wifi network connectivity

Grimm Audio MU2 "Major Dac"

I believe the PhoenixNET has a 10/100 Ethernet port on it and the MUON Pro requires a Gigabit Ethernet port. Other have tried, they don't work together. I do know of MUON Pro users who have abandoned their PhoenixNET devices.

www.whatsbestforum.com

Within that post there is a link to a German site that has articles that objectively backup what you experienced

 

[ihmeyers]

I too try to power my eero from various LPS without any luck. All I get is the orange light which means non-compatible power supply. I'm glad others have had success using the eero. In my system, it was a terrible RF polluter, which seems to be a common theme I have read elsewhere. I ended up creating a workaround (eero to fiber converter/ fiber converter into uptone etheregn/ ethernet out from the uptone into a SOtm switch/switch to my streamer ethernet connection. Sound quality is dramatically better than modem/eero/switch/streamer but there's room for improvement. I'm in a big house so the mesh works well at delivery signal to 3 floors, but IMO, hi-res it's not. My network guy had installed about a dozen eero systems before but never one in an audiophile house so he wasn't even aware of how it can affect sound quality. Of course, this is only my experience but clearly heard by all that have listened before and after. Your mileage may vary. An eero compatible LPs would be helpful because I think it's the wall wart that creates much of the noise, even plugged into a Puritan power conditioner.