@Alrainbow
I don't believe I said I hear superlative results. I thought I was saying. I did not hear any difference between the Eero directly attached to my server or putting 1 to 2 switches between the Eero and server..
I was then told my switch is a piece of c***. Now i'm hearing I need $10,000 in Taiko switches, power supplies, and so on to hear a difference. It sure better be a really good difference. I could get two of steve Schnerzinger devices for that kind of money and impact my entire system.
I think you are changing the story. The title of the thread, which you created, is “Audiophile switched and routers may be a waste of money” implying that they don’t really improve the sound. Now you are saying you need to spend $10k to hear a difference. No one is saying you need to buy anything, but if a switch and router combination does actually improve the sound significantly then they aren’t a waste of money to someone. I thought you were trying to understand if routers and switches can actually do something positive, sound wise.
I think you are changing the story. The title of the thread, which you created, is “Audiophile switched and routers may be a waste of money” implying that they don’t really improve the sound. Now you are saying you need to spend $10k to hear a difference. No one is saying you need to buy anything, but if a switch and router combination does actually improve the sound significantly then they aren’t a waste of money to someone. I thought you were trying to understand if routers and switches can actually do something positive, sound wise.
Ok. I see the point. I did not think my switch was junk. Its not the most expensive. It does not improve the sonics in my setup with the mesh router. So I started the thread.
I was surprised to hear someone with a different mesh router and stock commercial switch say it's very apparent adding the switch.
I can see how the title of my thread would draw in the high dollar switch spending crowd. I'm sure there are a lot of $5000 switches that people will want to chime in and say needs to be utilized to get a gain.
Maybe it's a stupid thread. It could quickly divulge into your not hearing real digital playback unless you buy yourself a $60,000+ server and well, now you need to buy yourself a $60,000+ DAC as well.
FWIW,
In my old house, the largest gain I ever heard with my digital utility was changing from a all In one modem/router to a separate modem and separate router.
As always in my system,
HQPlayer is better Than streaming.
HQPlayer 24/96 are even better.
Ok. I see the point. I did not think my switch was junk. Its not the most expensive. It does not improve the sonics in my setup with the mesh router. So I started the thread.
I was surprised to hear someone with a different mesh router and stock commercial switch say it's very apparent adding the switch.
I can see how the title of my thread would draw in the high dollar switch spending crowd. I'm sure there are a lot of $5000 switches that people will want to chime in and say needs to be utilized to get a gain.
Maybe it's a stupid thread. It could quickly divulge into your not hearing real digital playback unless you buy yourself a $60,000+ server and well, now you need to buy yourself a $60,000+ DAC as well.
FWIW,
In my old house, the largest gain I ever heard with my digital utility was changing from a all In one modem/router to a separate modem and separate router.
As always in my system,
HQPlayer is better Than streaming.
HQPlayer 24/96 are even better.
Switches, their power supplies, ethernet cables, etc all still make a very obvious difference in my orbi system. Wifi disabled/physically removed from server, etc, etc. I'd imagine that in general, mesh satellites are noisy devices themselves considering their purpose.
Mesh devices are noisy very close up, but not once you get a few feet away from them there is no noise issue.
The big problem with mesh is that you lose so much signal strength bouncing around wireless units.
I had the previous Netgear mesh system. It was garbage and I binned it. I use Ubiquiti, an enterprise level managed system. I use a 24 port and 2xSFP switch with a controller giving me a dedicated audio VLAN. The main network has 5 access points all wired with mesh turned off. There are over 80 active IPs of which 25 are 24/192 wireless streaming audio.
The switch, Roon Server and network storage run off mains power supplied by a UPS from Cyberpower ($150).
I took cheap to mean what it meant. It is cheap. My Asus gaming router is much higher quality. I think. Come to think of it, what did I get with a $350 Asus router? Both are gigabyte speed. Both have SMPS. I am not sure if one is able to handle larger packets of data or not. I don't seem to have speed issues or hang ups when sending a file. TV and stereo seem to be the same.
This is Whatsbest. I simply beg the question. At what point do you draw a line. Where do you say the Eero is enough. If I have to add a $5000 switch to better it, then what is there to say about the Server and DAC. Why spend so much if you have a $2500 Hifi Rose streamer and a $2200 Schiit DAC. People can always talk you down with their deep wallets. There is always someone who can say they did better by spending limitless $$$ There are a whole lot of people out there with say a Etherregen switch. Would they hear a difference with the Eero. Who knows.
Up until 2 months ago didn’t have an Ethernet connection available in my basement, where my AV system resides. Since then I had solar panels installed which although have nothing to do with the system, required that a Ethernet cable be brought into the basement and to its new associated panel, giving me the option to try.
I had been using the Eero mesh for the past two years in the same manner that you have described albeit with a SOtM switch and fmc converter cited between my DIY Euphony/nuc server (with jcat nic) and Nvidia Shield (movie stream).
I strongly recommend that anyone thinking about moving in this direction to try and compare having the added optic isolation in between the Eero (or any other manufacturer’s mesh device for that matter), and your server as I my system benefited greatly.
Now that I have the Ethernet connection as an option what has made the most sense to me is….
Ethernet to Mikrotik converter to SoTM.
Rather than using the Eero as the bridge to the SOtM switch I am using it strictly as an access point plugged into one of the mikrotik’s Ethernet ports which not only electrically isolates but also limits congestion on my streaming due to the way my internet/router, etc., is configured.
All of these devices are in a separate room from all my audio electronics, which is in a separate room from my listening room/theater.
Hopes this all makes sense!
I use a $30 TPlink fmc, but powered by the SoTM 9v battery power supply.
I’ve used fibre optic for about 10 years. I used to need a local switch, now just the one main switch. By isolating processors for Roon and HQ Player elsewhere on the network, in my case connected to a switch with SFP, the need for any audiophile tweaks disappear.
Audiophiles as a category of organisms spend way too much money on parts of the hi fi chain that don't matter a whole lot (fancy power cords, cables, switches, media servers etc.), as opposed to areas where it matters a great deal (design of the listening room, ensuring adequate mixture of reflecting and absorbing areas, and of course what loudspeakers you use). The listening room and loudspeakers dominate everything else in terms of coloration. Even the same loudspeaker moved from one room to another can sound very different.
The late MIT Professor Amar Gopal Bose did a fabulous presentation of the coloration of the loudspeaker+room that everyone on WBF should watch once in their lives to educate themselves on what really matters in high end audio. Play back a recording on your loudspeaker (any recording, and any loudspeaker, and pretty much any room, cost no object). Record the loudspeaker in that room, and play back the recording of the loudspeaker. Iterate this half a dozen times. At the end what you get is pure noise! The colorations simply dwarfs the original signal, so that all you get at the end is pure noise. Repeat this experiment with a dozen amplifiers connected to each other, or DACs or any component in the hifi chain, gains adjusted appropriately, and I doubt you'll hear any difference at all. That should make it obvious what the real problems in high end audio are.
@Kingrex my switches aren't stock, though at the same time they're not heavily modified, just added 3M emi absorber, a few cap swaps/additions, and added carbon fiber to the casing. On all my switches, I have listened with them in/out multiple times in multiple combinations. Every time I make a change to that part of the system I test. In fact, that's originally why I'd bought two of the same switch -- to go back and forth between one stock and one modded. After I got to a stopping point with mods, trying 1x modded vs 2x modded, which is why my setup is where it is today.
There are a number of factors that could account for our differences. I'm betting wifi pollution in our respective environments is one, and the server/streamer connected to the network is another.
FWIW,
In my old house, the largest gain I ever heard with my digital utility was changing from a all In one modem/router to a separate modem and separate router.
Perhaps that is all it takes. Since I like the convenience of using the ISP's modem/router as is, I have accepted the downside. In my setup, a switch has quite a positive impact.
I'm not sure why anyone would doubt your results or think it somehow diminishes their solution if that solution involves adding switches, no matter the price paid.
I think the streamer is the vital component in the sense that if it is relatively immune to noise carried by copper ethernet, then most of the work has been done. I've used a copper to fiber converter in the past, but that solution didn't sound as good as the present system. Some gear has changed, however, and perhaps the result would be different now.
I assume networks (and listeners) are different enough that there isn't a universal solution to the network noise problem.
I have a hard-wired network and use a AUD$3000 switch in my system, with great results and sonic improvements. I heard it in another system before I tried it in mine BEFORE I dropped any money on it. It simply had to be better for me to spend money. No different or worse was never gonna cut it.
For anyone who has tried a "fancy" switch and found no sonic improvements, I say, "good on you". I would expect the same response for my experiences from those people also, rather than being asked to justify the improvements, which seems to happen a lot in these types of threads and conversations.
Some time ago, a number of us audiophiles got together and did a proper blind testing of a number of switches, ranging from flagship Anzus stuff to off the shelf D-Link.
Long story short, I’m running my hi-fi from my stock cable modem (but on a linear power supply). In other words, the blind test was enough for me to convince me that “audiophile switches” are a joke, or that I’m def to hear the difference between high end and regular ones. Either way, I’m good.
Some time ago, a number of us audiophiles got together and did a proper blind testing of a number of switches, ranging from flagship Anzus stuff to off the shelf D-Link.
Long story short, I’m running my hi-fi from my stock cable modem (but on a linear power supply). In other words, the blind test was enough for me to convince me that “audiophile switches” are a joke, or that I’m def to hear the difference between high end and regular ones. Either way, I’m good.
Where is the need for galvanic isolation on a wired network ?
data is voltage always yea it’s coded but still voltage.
a simple one location to start from makes sense.
internet source feeds an audio only router
. Use one port to feed a network switch. this Network Switch is where galvonic isolation begins
place at the port out from router to network switch. Place at port of network switch.
in the network router leave WiFi but place the router away out of your audio room.
place the network isolation device close to your network switch.
In the router choose own ip address. not the same as all else , not clone.
This slows traffic inside the audio router
turn off all services inside the router not needed.
This a good place to start from.
you can add linaer psu at network switch
each connected device should have its own pci express network card , not a sub type.
this allows you to turn off network services and any services not needed in the main board bios
simple and cheap too.
fwiw. the addition of the telegartner M12 gold switch into my system a few years ago remains the highest sound quality benefit to $ ratio I have ever spent/experienced.
