Audiophile switches and routers may be a waste of money

[Kingrex]

I was quickly told to leave a switch thread because I noted I was no longer experiencing any gains from audiophile switches or stacking switches after I was forced to change my internet from a Ethernet cable to a Eero Mesh router. I had the whole expensive chain like everyone else some time back. LPS to separate Modem and Router. A custom Linear Solution switch feeding my stereo.

Recently I was forced to change. I had no ethernet cable in the new house. I was told by a audiophile to get Eero 6+ mesh routers. They are a wifi device that create a mesh of locations receiving and broadcasting wifi. Each device has 2 ethernt ports on the back. I used one behind my audio server with a short 18 inch Cat 6 jumper to my server.

Thinking about making things better I brought my Linear Solution switch out and plugged it into the Eero, then my server into it. No audible change. I then plugged a Belkin switch into the Eero and the linear solution switch into it and the server into that chain. No change.

The Eero 6+ is a gigabyte device. Maybe being completely isolated from the data utility provides a level of clean that is negating the need for specialty switches.

People with a hard wire available should look into this. I have no way to compare.
FWIW, the setup is to install a modem as usual. Turn off the router function in the modem so it is only a modem. Plug the Eero into it and use a app to configure it. Then drop additional Eero into the house and use the app to connect it to the primary one attached to the modem that is acting as the Router. It tool all of 10 minutes. And I see no issues with sonics.

 

[ssfas]

I was quickly told to leave a switch thread because I noted I was no longer experiencing any gains from audiophile switches or stacking switches after I was forced to change my internet from a Ethernet cable to a Eero Mesh router. I had the whole expensive chain like everyone else some time back. LPS to separate Modem and Router. A custom Linear Solution switch feeding my stereo.

Recently I was forced to change. I had no ethernet cable in the new house. I was told by a audiophile to get Eero 6+ mesh routers. They are a wifi device that create a mesh of locations receiving and broadcasting wifi. Each device has 2 ethernt ports on the back. I used one behind my audio server with a short 18 inch Cat 6 jumper to my server.

Thinking about making things better I brought my Linear Solution switch out and plugged it into the Eero, then my server into it. No audible change. I then plugged a Belkin switch into the Eero and the linear solution switch into it and the server into that chain. No change.

The Eero 6+ is a gigabyte device. Maybe being completely isolated from the data utility provides a level of clean that is negating the need for specialty switches.

People with a hard wire available should look into this. I have no way to compare.
FWIW, the setup is to install a modem as usual. Turn off the router function in the modem so it is only a modem. Plug the Eero into it and use a app to configure it. Then drop additional Eero into the house and use the app to connect it to the primary one attached to the modem that is acting as the Router. It tool all of 10 minutes. And I see no issues with sonics.

I used wireless for years and still do, with dozens of units up to 24/192 PCM.

There are no issues relating to data transmission integrity, that's been a solved problem for years.

There may be noise/RF issues if you put an access point very close to your hifi. The wired solution you've implemented from the Eero access point overcomes that.

From what I understand, the main issue with wireless audio is how the wireless receiver is implemented in the streamer and the less electrical activity you have going on inside your streamer, the better.

I agree that audiophile switches and routers are a waste of time and money. I don't use any.

I have a networking and audio processing cupboard in the centre of the house and a fibre optic cable to the audio system.

 

[Kingrex]

My $89 Fosi has a wireless streamer inside. My server does not. All the Eero 6+ have 2 ethernet ports on the back. That is why I got them. My desktop office computer does not have built in wifi either. I have a Eero sitting next to it also. I have a ethernet cable plugged into the Eero and that connects to the desktop and another one in my listening room connects to my server. The Eero mesh router is a way to get a hard wired gigabyte connection to a computer that requires Ethernet to connect to the internet.

They also take to each other and create a solid wifi connection for phones and laptops throughout your property

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I was quickly told to leave a switch thread because I noted I was no longer experiencing any gains from audiophile switches or stacking switches after I was forced to change my internet from a Ethernet cable to a Eero Mesh router. I had the whole expensive chain like everyone else some time back. LPS to separate Modem and Router. A custom Linear Solution switch feeding my stereo.

Recently I was forced to change. I had no ethernet cable in the new house. I was told by a audiophile to get Eero 6+ mesh routers. They are a wifi device that create a mesh of locations receiving and broadcasting wifi. Each device has 2 ethernt ports on the back. I used one behind my audio server with a short 18 inch Cat 6 jumper to my server.

Thinking about making things better I brought my Linear Solution switch out and plugged it into the Eero, then my server into it. No audible change. I then plugged a Belkin switch into the Eero and the linear solution switch into it and the server into that chain. No change.

The Eero 6+ is a gigabyte device. Maybe being completely isolated from the data utility provides a level of clean that is negating the need for specialty switches.

People with a hard wire available should look into this. I have no way to compare.
FWIW, the setup is to install a modem as usual. Turn off the router function in the modem so it is only a modem. Plug the Eero into it and use a app to configure it. Then drop additional Eero into the house and use the app to connect it to the primary one attached to the modem that is acting as the Router. It tool all of 10 minutes. And I see no issues with sonics.

How rude to ask you to leave. You were sharing your experience and I for one appreciate that. I am in a wired environment and do have wi-fi but limit it to a secondary network to run portable devices.

 

[Kingrex]

How rude to ask you to leave. You were sharing your experience and I for one appreciate that. I am in a wired environment and do have wi-fi but limit it to a secondary network to run portable devices.

I get it. The moderator has to do his job. It's like pitching Synergistic Research on the Schnerzinger thread. It is derailing. So I started another thread.

I am curious a pair of Eero for $250 vs $5000 plus in ethernet contraptions. I would assume the Eero is 100% protected from grid noise. I am simply noting my high end switch does nothing when plugged into the Eero. Employing the tactic of stacking switches does nothing either. Why is that? Should we be spending money on audiophile switches and LPS or using a mesh router. Hopefully someone with a ethernet connection as well as a Eero can chime in. I don't have a way to test anything.

 

[flowcharts]

Switches, their power supplies, ethernet cables, etc all still make a very obvious difference in my orbi system. Wifi disabled/physically removed from server, etc, etc. I'd imagine that in general, mesh satellites are noisy devices themselves considering their purpose.

 

[agisthos]

Linear Solution switches are just commercial switches they stick an ocxo into and powered by an LPS. Better than stock to be sure, but not exactly state of the art.

Maybe this level of switch brings no gain beyond a wifi mesh setup.

 

[Kingrex]

Switches, their power supplies, ethernet cables, etc all still make a very obvious difference in my orbi system. Wifi disabled/physically removed from server, etc, etc. I'd imagine that in general, mesh satellites are noisy devices themselves considering their purpose.

What switch do you use.

 

[Iamrael]

Up until 2 months ago didn’t have an Ethernet connection available in my basement, where my AV system resides. Since then I had solar panels installed which although have nothing to do with the system, required that a Ethernet cable be brought into the basement and to its new associated panel, giving me the option to try.
I had been using the Eero mesh for the past two years in the same manner that you have described albeit with a SOtM switch and fmc converter cited between my DIY Euphony/nuc server (with jcat nic) and Nvidia Shield (movie stream).
I strongly recommend that anyone thinking about moving in this direction to try and compare having the added optic isolation in between the Eero (or any other manufacturer’s mesh device for that matter), and your server as I my system benefited greatly.
Now that I have the Ethernet connection as an option what has made the most sense to me is….
Ethernet to Mikrotik converter to SoTM.
Rather than using the Eero as the bridge to the SOtM switch I am using it strictly as an access point plugged into one of the mikrotik’s Ethernet ports which not only electrically isolates but also limits congestion on my streaming due to the way my internet/router, etc., is configured.
All of these devices are in a separate room from all my audio electronics, which is in a separate room from my listening room/theater.
Hopes this all makes sense!

 

[Kingrex]

Up until 2 months ago didn’t have an Ethernet connection available in my basement, where my AV system resides. Since then I had solar panels installed which although have nothing to do with the system, required that a Ethernet cable be brought into the basement and to its new associated panel, giving me the option to try.
I had been using the Eero mesh for the past two years in the same manner that you have described albeit with a SOtM switch and fmc converter cited between my DIY Euphony/nuc server (with jcat nic) and Nvidia Shield (movie stream).
I strongly recommend that anyone thinking about moving in this direction to try and compare having the added optic isolation in between the Eero (or any other manufacturer’s mesh device for that matter), and your server as I my system benefited greatly.
Now that I have the Ethernet connection as an option what has made the most sense to me is….
Ethernet to Mikrotik converter to SoTM.
Rather than using the Eero as the bridge to the SOtM switch I am using it strictly as an access point plugged into one of the mikrotik’s Ethernet ports which not only electrically isolates but also limits congestion on my streaming due to the way my internet/router, etc., is configured.
All of these devices are in a separate room from all my audio electronics, which is in a separate room from my listening room/theater.
Hopes this all makes sense!

Have you tried it both ways? It would be interesting to know if one was better than the other. Or if there was no detectable difference between the two.

It would be nice to know if there were detectable difference between the 2 topology.

All feedback is good feedback.
I personally am happy to accept a mess router is a noisy device, like all other routers. And that a good switch will support better playback.

At a minimum, mesh routers have come a long way. I used to scoff wifi. A hardwire was always better. I don't know that is the case anymore.

 

[flowcharts]

What switch do you use.

Nothing too crazy expense-wise. I have an LHY SW-8 closest to my server/streamer. Upstream, just before the Orbi satellite I have two modified Netgear GS108Ev3 switches, both powered by an HDPlex 200W LPS. The Hdplex also powers the satellite.

 

[Kingrex]

Nothing too crazy expense-wise. I have an LHY SW-8 closest to my server/streamer. Upstream, just before the Orbi satellite I have two modified Netgear GS108Ev3 switches, both powered by an HDPlex 200W LPS. The Hdplex also powers the satellite.

Your switch isn't much different than mine. And you say you hear a large difference. I did a bunch of back and forth critically listening, and I really heard nothing. Did you actually go back and forth multiple times. Or did you put the switch in and believe you heard an improvement but never went back to validate.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Your switch isn't much different than mine. And you say you hear a large difference. I did a bunch of back and forth critically listening, and I really heard nothing. Did you actually go back and forth multiple times. Or did you put the switch in and believe you heard an improvement but never went back to validate.

Psycho acoustics or his network really was noisy!

 

[Alrainbow]

A few thoughts on your new setup Rex
1- How far away is tour base transmitter ?
2- is the ero a hot spot device like a usb modem into a desktop or laptop ?
3- have you tried a cable connection using an galvonic connection?
curious

 

[Alrainbow]

Hahahaha I just looked up the ero lol
it’s wireless mesh and cheap too
I use something similar for ring cameras
one cable to first one and add on is all wireless.
I’m laughing not at you Rex but the people who you pissed off.
most forums here included is a market forums.
what you did is say hey I got the little cube and plug it into my wall socket and my system is soo much better and a host of superlatives after that.
so what does the maker or owner who has a 20 k power system feel.
sorry man it’s just funny but can you imagine how some felt

 

[Iamrael]

I haven’t compared. I will do my best this evening after dinner and report back.
I will grab one of the other Eero’s I have from another room in the house and go direct to from it (Ethernet out) directly to the jcat Ethernet input on my nuc server with Euphony.
Will this suffice?

 

[dminches]

Before you make a final conclusion on this you should put the Taiko router and switch in the signal chain and see what you think.

 

[Iamrael]

At a minimum, mesh routers have come a long way. I used to scoff wifi. A hardwire was always better. I don't know that is the case anymore.

This is important point I forgot to mention…..It is very obvious that when I ask Euphony to buffer a playlist/album into RAM when I stream Qobuz that it takes at least x2 the time per file…..even more so with streaming movies.
*********Once my playlist is buffered into Euphony ram the internet connection is mostly, (or in the case when I physically disconnect the Ethernet cable) totally moot.
All this is YMMV due to WiFi performance, blah, blah and blah.

 

[Alrainbow]

I have a dac it has many inputs
usb , WiFi , Bluetooth , spidif and hdmi
I used WiFi at first logistically it made things easier.
when I had time I made a roon end point pc
all it does is roon end point low power main board on a linear psu
intel chipset
when I tried usb it was much better
it was great before too.
the end point is wired
next up a usb re clocker an empirical off-ramp 5 usb to many outputs to try
spidif is best in sound.
I think Rex and others have not found the better method in hearing it.
so what they say is there truth and I can live with this.
in video it seems to not matter but it’s compressed and buffered to hell.
audio I think is best of left unchanged as best we can.

 

[Kingrex]

@Alrainbow
I don't believe I said I hear superlative results. I thought I was saying. I did not hear any difference between the Eero directly attached to my server or putting 1 to 2 switches between the Eero and server..
I was then told my switch is a piece of c***. Now i'm hearing I need $10,000 in Taiko switches, power supplies, and so on to hear a difference. It sure better be a really good difference. I could get two of steve Schnerzinger devices for that kind of money and impact my entire system.