Focus on the other end; the closer to the streamer you get, the bigger the difference any given change will make.
What are Contenders for Top Audiophile Routers? Routers more Impactful than Switches?
- Thread starter caesar
- Start date
Based on this example, where longer Ethernet cables are more susceptible to noise ( while shorter cables are less affected) the optimal setup would be:
Router → 10m cable (or optical break) → Post-router switch → 1m cable → Pre-streamer switch → 30cm cable → Streamer.
or
Router → 10m cable → Post-router switch → 1m cable (or optical break) → Pre-streamer switch → 30cm cable → Streamer.
To clarify, unlike the Reiki setup, in my setup, the post-router switch is actually a router specifically optimized for audio.
Last edited:
Interesting, though neither is what I see most people settling on. Most use only one high quality pre-streamer switch; and those that use two switches have the second one just 1m of so from the general purpose router to separate out the audio network at the earliest possible opportunity (as some do with a second router). Any long run, whether optical or copper, is typically from there to the listening room which has only the one switch in it.
Two switches so close together is usually called daisychaining or cascading and only brings an audible difference if the pre-streamer switch is sub-optimal. I’d describe your options as both having a pre-streamer switch and a pre-pre-streamer-switch switch!
is there a way to truly separate the audio network? I've seen solutions in which the audiophile router has its own wifi for establishing settings, monitoring, etc. But ultimately doesn't the audiophile router communicate with the ISP router that supplies the internet connection? If so, how is it the the audiophile router limits traffic on the audio side?
Considering the improvement just putting an lps on the router was, I have now ordered a custom Pura Dodo Quad 2.5a LPS. Normally the Dodo is a dual outlet, so this is 2x dual boards in one chassis.
So the internet NBN box, the router and the wi-fi router will all have clean LPS. It all sits on top of my kitchen pantry cupboard.
This may seems overkill for the network setup not even in the listening room, but may as well do it right.
So the internet NBN box, the router and the wi-fi router will all have clean LPS. It all sits on top of my kitchen pantry cupboard.
This may seems overkill for the network setup not even in the listening room, but may as well do it right.
Interesting, though neither is what I see most people settling on. Most use only one high quality pre-streamer switch; and those that use two switches have the second one just 1m of so from the general purpose router to separate out the audio network at the earliest possible opportunity (as some do with a second router). Any long run, whether optical or copper, is typically from there to the listening room which has only the one switch in it.
Two switches so close together is usually called daisychaining or cascading and only brings an audible difference if the pre-streamer switch is sub-optimal. I’d describe your options as both having a pre-streamer switch and a pre-pre-streamer-switch switch!
I am simply placing your post-router switch closer to the pre-streamer switch, eliminating from the audio network a long cable that is more susceptible to noise. Why keep a long cable prone to noise after the post-router switch when you can connect it before? ;-)
Plus, the closer you get to the streamer, the bigger the impact of any change. By using 30cm instead of a 100cm cable, the noise entering in the last meter to the streamer has been reduced by nearly 70%, IF noise susceptibility scales linearly with cable length ;-).
I get that this isn’t what most people typically do—just a thought!
Last edited:
This is to try answer your router question, not to explain how network filters or dual-port switches work (I don’t know— Reiki Audio does!). In short: the router manages traffic more effectively, ensuring the switch only deals with necessary data, potentially leading to better audio performance.
A router can assign a separate subnet or VLAN for audio traffic, fully isolating it from general home devices (smart TVs, phones, etc.). A (multi-port) switch, on the other hand, only manages data within a given network—it does not create separate networks. A switch sees all traffic on the incoming network port but only forwards data to specific MAC addresses.
That’s why I think a properly configured router upstream is key—it controls which traffic even reaches the switch, ensuring it only deals with the cleanest possible data. To me, a dual-port "switch" only cleans or optimizes the Ethernet signal but doesn't isolate it from general network traffic (but it does other things). Again, dual-port ‘filters’ aren’t really switches in the network sense—they’re just enhancing the signal, not managing traffic. But even in that case, I think a properly configured router before them could still be crucial for reducing upstream noise.
So, while a switch can improve signal quality, it cannot replace a properly configured router when it comes to true network isolation.
Last edited:
If by truly you mean totally, then I guess the only way to achieve this is to have a separate router with a separate connection into it (via separate wire or fibre into house or 4G/5G)... but what's the point? For sound quality, there really isn't one.
It's nothing to do with traffic. Even hi-res music places no pressure on bandwidth. Whether we use a single router or two, the digital data which represents our music will get there in perfect condition; with error-checking etc along the way, it's exactly how the internet is designed to work and the reason it does. The digital side has always been sorted and always will be; nothing to see here.
Our only concern is noise, and the only reason to seek to implement a separate network dedicated to audio is to minimise the amount of noise reaching the streamer and going on to the DAC by detaching the audio network from potentially noisy devices connected to the general home network. Anyone serious about minimising this noise will already have invested in a high quality switch or filter just before the hifi system, so what we are left to deal with through separation is the variable amount of conducted and radiated RFI noise each of us has in our home less the amount of noise the switch/filter will remove anyway. We are clearly in the realms of diminishing returns here.
In most audio systems there are probably other places for us to invest our time and money to far greater impact. But hey we're talking audiophile routers and switches so let's explore. I'd wager that if 20 of us were to sit in a room listening to a system which uses a high quality switch just before the streamer to do the heavy lifting, while at the other end of the chain someone swapped between (1) completely separate router/ISP, (2) audio router hanging off the main router and (3) supplementary high quality switch hanging off the main router, few if any of us would be able to discern a difference. The last of these is the easiest to implement.
I'm absolutely up for joining in a session where someone wants to put this to the test and reserve the right to change my mind in the face of compelling audible evidence! Until then, my personal view is that audiophile routers are most likely a solution looking for a problem.
We are spookily aligned
. I guess I see the just-post-router switch as an easier to implement, cheaper to implement and just as impactful alternative to an audio-dedicated router sitting alongside the general home router. And the more effective the pre-streamer switch, the less sonic impact anyyhing upstream has.
My eero router is about three feet from the network switch and two feet from its wall connection. The 8 switch is six feet from the Roon Nucleus streamer and another couple of feet from the Bartok DAC. the cables are Wireworld's top line and AudioQuest top. The cable from switch to the DCS Bartok is a Blue Jeans CAT5 non shielded connection as the ethernet connections to all dCS equipment require an unshielded cable to maintain galvanic separation from the net hookup. I had the AQ Diamond to the DAC with its shield and switched to the unshielded cable and you could hear an immediate noise improvement.
Another issue for me here is that I am not notified when someone posts to a thread I'm on. Unless I just happen to open this forum, I don't know someone has asked me a question. Can anyone help me with a setting or something to advise? Thanks.
Another issue for me here is that I am not notified when someone posts to a thread I'm on. Unless I just happen to open this forum, I don't know someone has asked me a question. Can anyone help me with a setting or something to advise? Thanks.
Interesting thread…
Maybe it’s overkill but I opted for a dedicated internet line. I have a second ISP bill, just for the system. It means a dedicated fiber line from the ISP with its own router (1 meter from the rack). The wifi is disabled, LED lights are disabled too. I use an iPad as controller, this is hardwired to the router.
I use a NA Tempus switch as post-router switch (STEALTH ULTRA cable) and Muon Pro filter as pre-streamer filter (Pink Faun Interlink cable on one side) with its own “pigtail” cable 30 centimeters long hooked up to the server/streamer.
Both the router and the switch powered by NA hybrid PSUs.
I tried different solution during last two years and my conclusions are:
- the power supply feeding router and switch matters (even the DC cable used)
- the switch and filter matters
- the ethernet cables matter
My next step (I know we are talking about obsessive thoughts) could be a Schnerzinger LAN Protector as post-router filter. Or a new Network Acoustic filter, if they will launch it in future.
Maybe it’s overkill but I opted for a dedicated internet line. I have a second ISP bill, just for the system. It means a dedicated fiber line from the ISP with its own router (1 meter from the rack). The wifi is disabled, LED lights are disabled too. I use an iPad as controller, this is hardwired to the router.
I use a NA Tempus switch as post-router switch (STEALTH ULTRA cable) and Muon Pro filter as pre-streamer filter (Pink Faun Interlink cable on one side) with its own “pigtail” cable 30 centimeters long hooked up to the server/streamer.
Both the router and the switch powered by NA hybrid PSUs.
I tried different solution during last two years and my conclusions are:
- the power supply feeding router and switch matters (even the DC cable used)
- the switch and filter matters
- the ethernet cables matter
My next step (I know we are talking about obsessive thoughts) could be a Schnerzinger LAN Protector as post-router filter. Or a new Network Acoustic filter, if they will launch it in future.
My dealers aren't particularly pleased but... I'm retired now many years and have stopped spending money on stuff unless there is a real, repeatable SQ difference. I've pulled out some ethernet purifying stuff that just wasn't making a difference. Like a Small Green Computer optical ethernet isolator. dCS does this internally as long as you don't mess it up with a shielded cable. The shield apparently carries the noise.
I did just add an AQ Hurricane PC to my power amp. replacing a lower level SR PC. The difference was not huge, but definitely there. Certainly not a user friendly piece but better at all frequencies and transients. As they say, you can't un-hear something once enjoyed.
I did just add an AQ Hurricane PC to my power amp. replacing a lower level SR PC. The difference was not huge, but definitely there. Certainly not a user friendly piece but better at all frequencies and transients. As they say, you can't un-hear something once enjoyed.
Thanks! Curious to see what the Schnerzinger will do. And no excuses needed—aren’t we all a bit obsessive? Hopefully, your contribution allows for more questions.
I’m not aware of any positive experience using no Wi-Fi at all, but Wi-Fi in the router has variables (e.g., transmission power, 2.4 GHz vs. 5 GHz) that need careful management. I also tried a wired iPad, even with tabs closed, but to no avail.
It seems you kept the interconnects really short, which could help reduce noise. Short cables and dedicated internet are also more feasible when using a 4G/LTE router. I realize long cable runs are often unavoidable and might introduce more noise than we realize.
So your set-up is? :
Router → 1m cable → NA Tempus → 1m Stealth Ultra cable → Muon Pro filter → 30cm PF cable → Streamer.
What source are you using? 100% streaming or partially local files? Does that impact sound quality?
Also, did you apply any footers or anti-vibration tweaks on either of the switches—ehh, filters?
Last edited:
You can use a shielded cable as long as you are sure the shield is not grounded at the downstream (dCS) end.
The argument that a group listening test might not reveal significant differences assumes that all listeners have the same sensitivity to subtle changes. However, audiophile-grade equipment often reveals nuances that may not be immediately apparent in quick A/B testing. Controlled long-term listening in familiar environments may be necessary to discern potential benefits.
Allow me to call yours a pragmatic yet somewhat limited view of the role of network separation in audio setups. Besides, not all streamers and DACs handle network noise equally. Some designs are more susceptible than others, making the effectiveness of different network isolation strategies system-dependent.
While your skepticism toward "audiophile routers" as a category is understandable, there remains room to explore network architecture optimizations beyond a single high-quality filter. For example dedicated fiber-based isolation, advanced grounding techniques, advanced clocking and optimized network components may and have already shown real improvements in certain setups. Ultimately, the effectiveness of network separation is system-dependent, and each audiophile must weigh potential improvements against the cost and complexity of implementation.
Last edited:
Thank you for your kind words.So your set-up is? :
Router → 1m cable → NA Tempus → 1m Stealth Ultra cable → Muon Pro filter → 30cm PF cable → Streamer.
What source are you using? 100% streaming or partially local files? Does that impact sound quality?
Also, did you apply any footers or anti-vibration tweaks on either of the switches—ehh, filters?
My set up is:
Router > 1m STEALTH Ultra cable > NA Tempus > 1m Pink Faun cable > Muon Pro with 30 cm fixed cable > Innuos Statement NG
Every single “box” along the path is grounded by a single connection to a different CAD GC1.
I don’t know why but no wifi and bluetooth seems to provide a beneficial effect IME. Psycho Acoustic?
I usually stream from Qobuz, I rarely play files stored on the server. Even stored Hi-Res or DSD files (which sound objectively more accurate and detailed) are not more involving to my ears in my system.
I tried Isoacoustic Orea footers, then I found HRS Nimbus (with damping plates on top of the chassis) my preferred one with switches, PSUs and servers/streamer. I’m tempted by Stack Audio products but haven’t tried them yet.
Last edited:
This is interesting. When I tried the CAD connected to two pieces of gear the sound degraded. I assumed that there was not sufficient isolation within the CAD. Using just one connection sounded better than two connections. Unfortunately, with there was no real improvement with my particular streamer and DAC at the time, so the demo unit was returned. I'm currently trying a Synergistic Research grounding block (very small and simple) connected to the SR ethernet cable feeding the SR switch and the switch itself and plugged into a dedicated outlet. Your post just reminded me to try disconnecting the ethernet cable to hear the difference. There is also the option of using it in passive mode without the power cord (just like the CAD). Will try that too.
Money back guarantee. The footers are a bargain and have worked well with a variety of gear. But YMMV, of course.
Out of curiosity, I may compare 2 and 3. I don't think the result, however, could be generalized given the different structure of networks. Perhaps any differences would be affected if the ISP router connected to an LPS, for example. Mine is not (seemingly not possible).
Similar threads
 | Steve Williams Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator |  | Ron Resnick Site Owner | Administrator |  | Julian (The Fixer) Website Build | Marketing Managersing |