Are there more differences than similarities between CH Precision and other top Swiss brands?

[GMKF]

Solid-state on high-sensitivity horns? My dear Max might you be suffering from Tube Derangement Syndrome?

I was just referencing that tube-amps distort in another way than SS-amps.
Most solid state amps decrease their distortion when their power increases. Until nearing maximum power, when distortion increases again.
Thats why SS have to be very low distortion (very high quality) for horns in order for you to not notice this phenomenon,
because their starting distortion is so low you do not notice the difference.

Triode tube amp's start with their lowest distortion and distortion increase with power. Thats why they are preferred for high sensitivity speakers.
Tetrode tube amp's dip at a few watt's and increase afterwards. Good for medium sensitivity speakers that idle at a few watt's.
A speaker can match an amp in the sense that it's "normal power-consumption" at listening level is in the zone of lowest distortion of the amplifier.

But do not believe that this will fix your every problem. Some high sensitivity speakers can have quite challenging crossovers,
which can cause problems for the low current nature of a SET.

I'd love to hear a Living Voice system with Soulution/CH or DarTZeel.

 

[poonbean]

Hoping to breathe a little life back into this thread bcs wondering about the difference and similarities in sound presentation etc between the Nagra and DarTZeel.

more specifically, Nagra classic series (amp (which I have) and pre) vs the DarTZeel NHB gear model one or two.
Thx for the help!

 

[ashandger]

Hoping to breathe a little life back into this thread bcs wondering about the difference and similarities in sound presentation etc between the Nagra and DarTZeel.

more specifically, Nagra classic series (amp (which I have) and pre) vs the DarTZeel NHB gear model one or two.
Thx for the help!

If ok with poonbean, then would like to include latest Nextgen Goldmund amps and preamps and how they compare with Dart and Nagra especially in terms of natural timbres and microdynamics? I notice that Myles Astor has recently switched from his top CJ gear to Goldmund Telos 280 amp and 37s preamp. No worries if Poonbean would prefer to limit to Nagra and Dartzeel.

 

[LL21]

If ok with poonbean, then would like to include latest Nextgen Goldmund amps and preamps and how they compare with Dart and Nagra especially in terms of natural timbres and microdynamics? I notice that Myles Astor has recently switched from his top CJ gear to Goldmund Telos 280 amp and 37s preamp. No worries if Poonbean would prefer to limit to Nagra and Dartzeel.

Yes, I also found out recently that Myles (like me a long-term CJ fan owner and fan) has recently switched to Goldmund. Would be interesting to hear more about how this move came about. A lot of reviewers who use their equipment to review/compare sometimes say they need the stability of SS (vs tubes with periodic re-tubing, re-biasing etc). I wonder if it was partly that, or entirely due to the preference for sound on an absolute basis.

 

[poonbean]

If ok with poonbean, then would like to include latest Nextgen Goldmund amps and preamps and how they compare with Dart and Nagra especially in terms of natural timbres and microdynamics? I notice that Myles Astor has recently switched from his top CJ gear to Goldmund Telos 280 amp and 37s preamp. No worries if Poonbean would prefer to limit to Nagra and Dartzeel.

 

[poonbean]

I’m game to add on another Swiss mfgr- but do want to keep this discussion rather focused
Thx!

 

[LL21]

Having heard the FM111 monos in our system, it would be really interesting (if you wish) to add them to the Swiss manufacturing auditions!

 

[KeithR]

Yes, I also found out recently that Myles (like me a long-term CJ fan owner and fan) has recently switched to Goldmund. Would be interesting to hear more about how this move came about. A lot of reviewers who use their equipment to review/compare sometimes say they need the stability of SS (vs tubes with periodic re-tubing, re-biasing etc). I wonder if it was partly that, or entirely due to the preference for sound on an absolute basis.

I think Myles is just closing the loop on a totally different kind of system when he moved to Magico a few years ago.

 

[poonbean]

At the risk of opening this too broadly, add the FM (which was not on my radar at all ).
hopefully someone with an true AB experience with Nagra and DarTZeel, and perhaps the others listed above, can weigh in here. I’ve got the opportunity to pick up the NHB108 amp, but have no clue on how it presents music vs the Nagra Classic- the published reviews I’ve read rave about both and, like most, review in a vacuum without compare and contrast, which is largely the domain of these blogs.

 

[LL21]

Definitely looking forward to reading more about this as people post.

 

[Carlos269]

Orpheus Labs needs to be added to this analysis. Be curious to hear opinions on their Heritage Ultimate Power Amplifiers.

 

[poonbean]

Well, after all that interest, I might be the first to weigh in on a comparison between the Nagra and DarTZeel as there's a CTH-8550 mk2 on its way....

 

[ashandger]

The CTH 8550 MKII just got a rave review in the new issue of HiFi Plus but no comparison with Nagra.

 

[tipunch]

If ok with poonbean, then would like to include latest Nextgen Goldmund amps and preamps and how they compare with Dart and Nagra especially in terms of natural timbres and microdynamics? I notice that Myles Astor has recently switched from his top CJ gear to Goldmund Telos 280 amp and 37s preamp. No worries if Poonbean would prefer to limit to Nagra and Dartzeel.

Oh great system!!!
Look at my signature

Living in Switzerland, I regularly listen to Swiss brands on system's friends.
Brands like CH Precision, Goldmund, Soulution, Dartzeel and Nagra are all excellent!

Their sound signatures are quite similar, but I would say to differentiate them (IMHO):

Soulution is on the neutral side (not to say "cold" because it's not cold at all!, but it's to give a direction)
CH Precision is on the hot side
Goldmund is exactly between CH Precision and Soulution.
Nagra is difficult to classify, because once they make a lamp element, another time without... (I dream of their DAC)
Dartzeel is rather on the hot side too...
To be chosen and combined according to your taste and the elements of your systems.

 

[LL21]

Oh great system!!!
Look at my signature

Living in Switzerland, I regularly listen to Swiss brands on system's friends.
Brands like CH Precision, Goldmund, Soulution, Dartzeel and Nagra are all excellent!

Their sound signatures are quite similar, but I would say to differentiate them (IMHO):

Soulution is on the neutral side (not to say "cold" because it's not cold at all!, but it's to give a direction)
CH Precision is on the hot side
Goldmund is exactly between CH Precision and Soulution.
Nagra is difficult to classify, because once they make a lamp element, another time without... (I dream of their DAC)
Dartzeel is rather on the hot side too...
To be chosen and combined according to your taste and the elements of your systems.

Nice system! Where do you place FM Acoustics in the 'temperature spectrum'?

 

[tipunch]

Nice system! Where do you place FM Acoustics in the 'temperature spectrum'?

oops, I forgot FM acoustics...

Unfortunately, I never had the opportunity to listen to this brand...

 

[LL21]

Oh great system!!!
Look at my signature

Living in Switzerland, I regularly listen to Swiss brands on system's friends.
Brands like CH Precision, Goldmund, Soulution, Dartzeel and Nagra are all excellent!

Their sound signatures are quite similar, but I would say to differentiate them (IMHO):

Soulution is on the neutral side (not to say "cold" because it's not cold at all!, but it's to give a direction)
CH Precision is on the hot side
Goldmund is exactly between CH Precision and Soulution.
Nagra is difficult to classify, because once they make a lamp element, another time without... (I dream of their DAC)
Dartzeel is rather on the hot side too...
To be chosen and combined according to your taste and the elements of your systems.

I would say FM Acoustics 'intuitively' (no A/B) sits as a more liquid-sounding version of Goldmund (older version I have heard).

 

[poonbean]

Thanks for the input. Surprised to hear tipunch say DarTZeel would be on the hot side of neutral as my sense from the reviews was not that - I was under the impression that it was a bit tubey sans tubes.
If it is hot, I likely won't be happy given the ribbon tweeters and just overall lack of tolerance for bright and lean. I'm much more in the camp of sacrificing some neutrality for emotion and texture, even if placed there on purpose. I shall see/hear soon as the 8550 ships today...

 

[gestalt]

I read tipunch's "hot" as in warm, rather than hot as in "bright" since they used "cold" as well.

emotion and texture

Sounds like darT to me.

 

[MadFloyd]

I have a Dartzeel preamp and a CH preamp. They sound very different. The Dartzeel is MUCH warmer sounding - it's like a tube preamp. The CH doesn't have the same tonal density and has a lot more high frequency energy than the Dartzeel. I think CH has a bit closer of a presentation than Dartzeel.

Interestingly enough, the one time I heard a Dartzeel preamp combined with Dartzeel amplifier it was so cold and bright that I was pretty shocked, but that could have been the room or setup.

I have heard that Goldmund has the tonal density combined with a smoothness in the highs and a closer presentation than the Dartzeel; would love to hear it one day. I'm sure it's excellent as are CH and Dartzeel.