AS Seasoned Audiophiles, What Have You Learned?

[puroagave]

Hey Rob, speaking of "not about gear, "is that a Simon Yorke arm in your avatar? Are you using it?

yes. I've had a SYD S10 for a few years with the S7.1 arm. The intrigue was too great, that, and the inevitable bond that develops when encountering Simon. Its what meeting van gogh for the first time must have been like. I drank the Koolaid and added the areoarm this year. My avatar pic is from the website but I posted my table on Myles' site. What's there to say? its the most idiosyncratic Objet d'art one could own that plays records and is as inconvenient to use as it is pretty.

​

 

[LL21]

It’s easy to lose your way in this hobby. I started out wanting to build a system that would give me better access to music and for some time I spent time chasing building systems that just gave me better hifi moments. I’m back on track now with a system that simply helps me access better music in the very best way possible for me.

I’ve largely stopped comparing components and now spend more time comparing performances. This week I’ve been working through shortlisting some of the better performances of Bach’s sonatas and partitas for solo violin. Apparently Bach was very much the gifted violinist as well as being the most extraordinary amongst composers. At this stage I’ve got it down to Henryk Szeryng and Arthur Grumiaux as perhaps my old school flag bearers and James Ehnes and Hilary Hahn out of the more current offerings. It’s a tough (brutal) final cut … though feeling Szeryng and Ehnes might be in the final playoffs.

Don’t get me wrong I love the way my system can sound but more because it makes being focussed in the music simply more possible for me. I guess what I’ve learnt is that we each find our own way and in the end we then find our own destinations.

Will be interesting to hear where you end up on Bach Solo...I have Grumiaux, Ehnes and Hahn. I would say toss up between Grumiaux and Hahn for me. In general however, I find Ehnes to be an exceptional violinist, a purveyor of magic music making.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Will be interesting to hear where you end up on Bach Solo...I have Grumiaux, Ehnes and Hahn. I would say toss up between Grumiaux and Hahn for me. In general however, I find Ehnes to be an exceptional violinist, a purveyor of magic music making.

Must admit it’s just so hard to go past Arthur Grumiaux in these solo wonders from Bach as much as I love Henryk Szerying in these as well.

For me these are some of the best things that Hilary Hahn has done but still I’d easily pack James Ehnes into my desert island bag of current violin players before Hilary Hahn. I find her variably good to great.

James Ehnes is typically great here and he left it till he matured before tackling recording these. That maturity gives his readings just a bit more depth for me. I find him so reliably exceptional in everything that he has recorded and that all his performances seem to have a characteristic completeness to them… he’d be among my first tier of go to contemporary violinists.

I actually don’t enjoy the cull to one but in this Bach for me Arthur Grumiaux is it… Szerying close in at #2 though I’m still struggling with how many extraordinary performances I had to leave on the bench to get there. Picking best performance in classical is a virtual blood sport… think I’ll stick to doing top 20 lists from now on… I like to be able to sleep at nights

 

[LL21]

It’s just so hard to go past Arthur Grumiaux in these solo wonders from Bach.

For me these are some of the best things that Hilary Hahn has done but still I’d easily pack James Ehnes into my desert island bag of current violin players before Hilary Hahn. I find her variably good to great.

James Ehnes is typically great here and he left it till he matured before tackling recording these. That maturity gives his readings just a bit more depth for me. I find him so reliably exceptional in everything that he has recorded and that all his performances seem to have a characteristic completeness to them… he’d be among my first tier of go to contemporary violinists.

I actually don’t enjoy the cull to one but in this Bach for me Arthur Grumiaux is it… maybe Szerying at #2 though I’m still struggling with how many extraordinary performances I had to leave on the bench to get there… picking best performance in classical is a virtual blood sport think I’ll stick to doing top 20 lists from now on.

Thank you! I agree with you on Ehnes...such a gold-medal player, and I would take him in a blind race over Hahn. I happen to prefer her interpretations on this particular case, but generally find Ehnes to be definitive in much of his work.

As for Grumiaux...you have given me inspiration to hear them again! Thank you! I have bought these and they are stunningly better remasters than anything I have been able to find before...

Johann Sebastian Bach, Arthur Grumiaux ‎– Sonatas & Partitas BWV 1001-

Title: Johann Sebastian Bach Sonatas & Partitas BWV 1001-1006 Artist(s): Johanna Martzy, violin Recording Info: Transferred from a 15ips 2-track tape Recorded at Abbey Road Studios, London by EMI Records 1955

www.highdeftapetransfers.ca

 

[microstrip]

A few points I have learned, somewhat influenced by what I have read in previous posts:

- Most audio gear has very good quality.

- If you use it wisely and with knowledge more money will return you a better system - although a very particular preference can create an exception to this rule.

- Usually a new version sounds better, but we have exceptions.

- Some equipment is very fussy of set up, if you do not like fiddling with gear and set up, avoid it.

- Picking the right gear for your particular room is critical and there is no replacement for experience. Fighting with the room is an hard job.

- Equipment synergy is mandatory. A good dealer can be of great help for advice and borrowing.

- The choice of format (analog or digital) depends on your own preference, not on absolute merit of the format or the internet opinions.

- Accepting that sound reproduction does not create the sound field of a real space in a listening room but needs to provide enough clues to provide recollection or emotions to you is an excellent start.

 

[LL21]

Hear, hear Micro. Well said.

I would add that if you find a piece of equipment that is fundamentally well designed, has the 'voice' you love...be very careful to be tempted to 'upgrade' to newer, more detailed, more whatever...that voicing is exceptionally important given that ALL designs are a combination of choices by the designer where 'perfection' is never in the cards, and so those choices inevitably involve a mixing of decisions some good but with some drawbacks. Hence 'the voice'.

Having spent 14 years with the Zanden digital...I continued even as of 4 weeks ago to discover that Yamada San's digital remains flagship for me. Having added new i2s digital and umbilical cables (Z:Axis Audio - thank you, Paul!) and the Waversa INT Reference Plus has pushed Yamada San's design forward 10-15 years imho while remaining absolutely faithful to his original voicing. Having recently heard newer 2022-generation reference digital (excellent by the way) I remain absolutely faithful to the Zanden digital. Remarkable.

 

[LL21]

Must admit it’s just so hard to go past Arthur Grumiaux in these solo wonders from Bach as much as I love Henryk Szerying in these as well.

For me these are some of the best things that Hilary Hahn has done but still I’d easily pack James Ehnes into my desert island bag of current violin players before Hilary Hahn. I find her variably good to great.

James Ehnes is typically great here and he left it till he matured before tackling recording these. That maturity gives his readings just a bit more depth for me. I find him so reliably exceptional in everything that he has recorded and that all his performances seem to have a characteristic completeness to them… he’d be among my first tier of go to contemporary violinists.

I actually don’t enjoy the cull to one but in this Bach for me Arthur Grumiaux is it… Szerying close in at #2 though I’m still struggling with how many extraordinary performances I had to leave on the bench to get there. Picking best performance in classical is a virtual blood sport… think I’ll stick to doing top 20 lists from now on… I like to be able to sleep at nights

So I went back to listen to Hahn, Grumiaux and Heifetz

HEIFETZ Bach: Sonatas & Partitas for Solo Violin (1952/1925) - PACM075

overviewfb55cd020f0643f08418183279e63a5fBACH Sonatas and Partitas for solo violin, BWV1001-1006BACH Partita No. 3 in E major BWV 1006, Menuetts I & IIRecorded 1952 & 1925Total duration: 2hr 9:01Jascha Heifetz...

www.pristineclassical.com

Johann Sebastian Bach, Arthur Grumiaux ‎– Sonatas & Partitas BWV 1001-

Title: Johann Sebastian Bach Sonatas & Partitas BWV 1001-1006 Artist(s): Johanna Martzy, violin Recording Info: Transferred from a 15ips 2-track tape Recorded at Abbey Road Studios, London by EMI Records 1955

www.highdeftapetransfers.ca

Hilary Hahn Plays Bach: Violin Sonatas Nos. 1 & 2; Partita No. 1(UHQCD / MQA - 24bit Remaster): Amazon.co.uk: CDs & Vinyl

Buy Hilary Hahn Plays Bach: Violin Sonatas Nos. 1 & 2; Partita No. 1(UHQCD / MQA - 24bit Remaster) by Hahn,Hilary, Bach,Johann Sebastian from Amazon's Classical Music Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

I have to rank them:
- Hahn
- Heifetz (both Hahn and Heifetz have some remarkable similarities in interpretation relative to Grumiaux)
- Grumiaux

I prefer the more lyrical, playful, slightly drawn way with Bach that the first two apply.

Interesting because on Bach Cello Suites I prefer Yo Yo Ma's SECOND (not first) album and Rostropovich (more straight up interpretations) above many others including the well known Pablo Casals and Janos Starker, Fournier, Wispeley, etc which are more lilting imho.

Six Evolutions - Bach: Cello Suites: Amazon.co.uk: CDs & Vinyl

Buy Six Evolutions - Bach: Cello Suites by Ma, Yo-Yo from Amazon's Classical Music Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

CASALS Bach: Suites for Solo Cello (1936-39) - PACM074

overviewfb55cd020f0643f08418183279e63a5fBACH Suites for Solo Cello, BVW 1007-1012Recorded 1936-39Total duration: 2hr 9:56Pablo Casals, cello578a9379d1e540bd96d26f03a79628d9review_titlefb55cd020f0643f08418183279e63a5fGramophone Historic...

www.pristineclassical.com

Bach: The Cello Suites [VINYL]: Amazon.co.uk: CDs & Vinyl

Buy Bach: The Cello Suites [VINYL] by Mstislav Rostropovich from Amazon's Classical Music Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

 

[the sound of Tao]

So I went back to listen to Hahn, Grumiaux and Heifetz

HEIFETZ Bach: Sonatas & Partitas for Solo Violin (1952/1925) - PACM075

overviewfb55cd020f0643f08418183279e63a5fBACH Sonatas and Partitas for solo violin, BWV1001-1006BACH Partita No. 3 in E major BWV 1006, Menuetts I & IIRecorded 1952 & 1925Total duration: 2hr 9:01Jascha Heifetz...

www.pristineclassical.com

Johann Sebastian Bach, Arthur Grumiaux ‎– Sonatas & Partitas BWV 1001-

Title: Johann Sebastian Bach Sonatas & Partitas BWV 1001-1006 Artist(s): Johanna Martzy, violin Recording Info: Transferred from a 15ips 2-track tape Recorded at Abbey Road Studios, London by EMI Records 1955

www.highdeftapetransfers.ca

Hilary Hahn Plays Bach: Violin Sonatas Nos. 1 & 2; Partita No. 1(UHQCD / MQA - 24bit Remaster): Amazon.co.uk: CDs & Vinyl

Buy Hilary Hahn Plays Bach: Violin Sonatas Nos. 1 & 2; Partita No. 1(UHQCD / MQA - 24bit Remaster) by Hahn,Hilary, Bach,Johann Sebastian from Amazon's Classical Music Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

I have to rank them:
- Hahn
- Heifetz (both Hahn and Heifetz have some remarkable similarities in interpretation relative to Grumiaux)
- Grumiaux

I prefer the more lyrical, playful, slightly drawn way with Bach that the first two apply.

Interesting because on Bach Cello Suites I prefer Yo Yo Ma's SECOND (not first) album and Rostropovich (more straight up interpretations) above many others including the well known Pablo Casals and Janos Starker, Fournier, Wispeley, etc which are more lilting imho.

Six Evolutions - Bach: Cello Suites: Amazon.co.uk: CDs & Vinyl

Buy Six Evolutions - Bach: Cello Suites by Ma, Yo-Yo from Amazon's Classical Music Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

CASALS Bach: Suites for Solo Cello (1936-39) - PACM074

overviewfb55cd020f0643f08418183279e63a5fBACH Suites for Solo Cello, BVW 1007-1012Recorded 1936-39Total duration: 2hr 9:56Pablo Casals, cello578a9379d1e540bd96d26f03a79628d9review_titlefb55cd020f0643f08418183279e63a5fGramophone Historic...

www.pristineclassical.com

Bach: The Cello Suites [VINYL]: Amazon.co.uk: CDs & Vinyl

Buy Bach: The Cello Suites [VINYL] by Mstislav Rostropovich from Amazon's Classical Music Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders.

www.amazon.co.uk

I wondered about Hahn’s age when she tackled these Bach pieces as many violinists leave these till much later on in their careers before broaching Bach’s solo violin works. Some do it early on (few as early as Hahn) but then record them again when more mature and have a better view of the summit. I did think that Hahn might have studied Heifetz’s performances in these also, they do have a lot of similarities… her technical skill for me is still among the best here.

I’m a long term Heifetz junkie and in my first great relationship the only thing that we ever argued about was who was better in the Brahms violin concerto, I always ran with Heifetz. Still others I have now grown to know even better over the years… Oistrakh, Kogan, Grumiaux, Szerying, Szigetti… barely starting at a list here with so many more giants from the end of the romantic era… it’s hard to keep up with all that has been recorded as cultural legacy.

In the end I just go with where I see a seamless rightness. But how can any of these be truly wrong choices?

The treasure of artistry we have in all these performers is breathtaking really. We are a most fortunate generation given how we can access such a trove of landmark performances and so many great musician’s legacy’s... more than a lifetime of listening… not just classical but jazz, RnB, rock and all the kinds of music that could be experienced in our age. It’s an extraordinary time to be a music lover.

 

[theophile]

Music is the reason for obsessing about sound quality. At least in my opinion. To those who say that audio is solely about music and not about the equipment I reply: How do I listen to a recording without equipment?

An analogy I make about audio listening is that apreciation of fine cars relates to enjoying driving. One loves the cars because one enjoys driving. However the enjoyment of driving is so much better if the car is well tuned and optimal. Then one forgets about the car and immerses themselves in the act of driving. There is no divide between loving audio and loving music. Getting the system right increases the love of both.

 

[LL21]

Music is the reason for obsessing about sound quality. At least in my opinion. To those who say that audio is solely about music and not about the equipment I reply: How do I listen to a recording without equipment?

An analogy I make about audio listening is that apreciation of fine cars relates to enjoying driving. One loves the cars because one enjoys driving. However the enjoyment of driving is so much better if the car is well tuned and optimal. Then one forgets about the car and immerses themselves in the act of driving. There is no divide between loving audio and loving music. Getting the system right increases the love of both.

Agree!

 

[LL21]

I wondered about Hahn’s age when she tackled these Bach pieces as many violinists leave these till much later on in their careers before broaching Bach’s solo violin works. Some do it early on (few as early as Hahn) but then record them again when more mature and have a better view of the summit. I did think that Hahn might have studied Heifetz’s performances in these also, they do have a lot of similarities… her technical skill for me is still among the best here.

I’m a long term Heifetz junkie and in my first great relationship the only thing that we ever argued about was who was better in the Brahms violin concerto, I always ran with Heifetz. Still others I have now grown to know even better over the years… Oistrakh, Kogan, Grumiaux, Szerying, Szigetti… barely starting at a list here with so many more giants from the end of the romantic era… it’s hard to keep up with all that has been recorded as cultural legacy.

In the end I just go with where I see a seamless rightness. But how can any of these be truly wrong choices?

The treasure of artistry we have in all these performers is breathtaking really. We are a most fortunate generation given how we can access such a trove of landmark so many great musician’s legacy... more than a lifetime of listening… not just classical but jazz, RnB, rock and all the kinds of music that could be experienced in our age. It’s an extraordinary time to be a music lover.

Interesting...yes, I think she was very young when she did these. And perhaps many years from now, she will revisit them. Interestingly, Yo Yo Ma recorded an award winning Bach Cello Suites, and I found it technically brilliant and somehow less fluid than I wanted...stiff almost. And then years later he came along (in 2018) and re-recorded them...and those are imho a truly brilliant work.

Glenn Gould did similarly with Bach Goldberg Variations, and I still prefer his 1982 Sony recording (the much later one than his 1954 original)...over the 2-dozen or so recordings I have of this piece by various artists.

And yes, being able to access this encyclopedic library of performances is magnificent. And with remastering ongoing, some of those earlier performances are getting closer and closer to natural sound which is also really amazing.

 

[PeterA]

And yes, being able to access this encyclopedic library of performances is magnificent. And with remastering ongoing, some of those earlier performances are getting closer and closer to natural sound which is also really amazing.

Lloyd, This is a fascinating comment. Could you please explain why you think the remasterings make these old recordings sound more natural? How do they sound different and what is it that makes them sound more natural to you?

 

[LL21]

Lloyd, This is a fascinating comment. Could you please explain why you think the remasterings make these old recordings sound more natural? How do they sound different and what is it that makes them sound more natural to you?

Hi Peter,

Yes, I am referring to HDTT and Pristine Classical remastering work (digital only). I own the original sometimes very scratchy Furtwangler, Casals and Heifetz recordings which on digital are often thin, scratchy, noisy. And suddenly, there is a sense of real verve, life (and quiet) in these recordings...but also a greater fullness/balance. Many remasterings backfill or overdose on damping high end hiss (like the very very old Dolby noise reduction on tape which worked (sort of)).

But these seem somehow to have been carefully remastered whereby there is simply less noise, but also a newfound level of detail, depth and power to the notes which give them more vibrancy and life.

 

[Bill Hart]

Hi Peter,

Yes, I am referring to HDTT and Pristine Classical remastering work (digital only). I own the original sometimes very scratchy Furtwangler, Casals and Heifetz recordings which on digital are often thin, scratchy, noisy. And suddenly, there is a sense of real verve, life (and quiet) in these recordings...but also a greater fullness/balance. Many remasterings backfill or overdose on damping high end hiss (like the very very old Dolby noise reduction on tape which worked (sort of)).

But these seem somehow to have been carefully remastered whereby there is simply less noise, but also a newfound level of detail, depth and power to the notes which give them more vibrancy and life.

Restoration of older recordings is a great strength of the digital medium. I listened to the original Les Paul lacquers cut direct to disc and digitized (both flat transfer and EQ'd- who knows what curve LP was applying). The early steps --he was doing multitrack by cutting a disc and playing it back while cutting a fresh disc with his overdub- were unbelievably visceral.
I don't know if I previously told about hearing the 1/1 transcription discs of the Benny Goodman at Carnegie Hall from the late '30s. It was like the Woodstock of big band. And the guy who did the restoration painstakingly brought that recording back to life. (He owns the original discs). Run through SP-10 SME arm, dunno what cartridge, to Marantz 1 Consolette and eventually digitized where the servers were in another room. His control panel on editing/restoration was all computer based. We compared the flat transfer (as expected, tinny, old timey sounding) with his clean-up-- Krupa's drums had dynamics, air, and size. And the playback amp/speakers- while fine, were nowhere near the level of what most people here use.
My point is that digital as a tool become of obvious value to me as a result of these experiences. There's a. lot of media out there that isn't tape, Les Paul lacquers aside.
I suppose you could do this on the playback side too, but the idea of tweaking for each recording is too daunting for me. It's enough just for me to fire up the system, without having to play control navigator. But, I've heard the results and they can be impressive.

 

[LL21]

Great insight, Bill! Thanks for sharing.

 

[andromedaaudio]

As a seasoned audiophile i have learned the show must go on

 

[the sound of Tao]

Interesting...yes, I think she was very young when she did these. And perhaps many years from now, she will revisit them. Interestingly, Yo Yo Ma recorded an award winning Bach Cello Suites, and I found it technically brilliant and somehow less fluid than I wanted...stiff almost. And then years later he came along (in 2018) and re-recorded them...and those are imho a truly brilliant work.

Glenn Gould did similarly with Bach Goldberg Variations, and I still prefer his 1982 Sony recording (the much later one than his 1954 original)...over the 2-dozen or so recordings I have of this piece by various artists.

And yes, being able to access this encyclopedic library of performances is magnificent. And with remastering ongoing, some of those earlier performances are getting closer and closer to natural sound which is also really amazing.

Glenn Gould’s first recording of the Goldberg variations were for me (as for so many others it seems) an especially iconic recording that really made you sit up and take note about the power and mystique of a seemingly unique connection in individual performance with an extraordinary work. I remember also seeing footage of Leonard Bernstein talking about his (at times uneasy) relationship with Glenn Gould and it was clear that while they saw the musical universe in different perspectives that Bernstein clearly championed the importance of us listening to what Gould was trying to say in his piano performances.

I’d say the Gould versions in this work imprinted fairly heavily on me… I very much still like both his early and later takes on these pieces of infinite fascination by J.S.Bach.

But I also really like Murray Perahia’s take in this as well… in some ways for me it’s a bit like a perfect alignment of the stars… there’s everything very right about where Perahia goes with the Goldbergs.

 

[LL21]

Glenn Gould’s first recording of the Goldberg variations were for me (as for so many others it seems) an especially iconic recording that really made you sit up and take note about the power and mystique of a seemingly unique connection in individual performance with an extraordinary work. I remember also seeing footage of Leonard Bernstein talking about his (at times uneasy) relationship with Glenn Gould and it was clear that while they saw the musical universe in different perspectives that Bernstein clearly championed the importance of us listening to what Gould was trying to say in his piano performances.

I’d say the Gould versions in this work imprinted fairly heavily on me… I very much still like both his early and later takes on these pieces of infinite fascination by J.S.Bach.

But I also really like Murray Perahia’s take in this as well… in some ways for me it’s a bit like a perfect alignment of the stars… there’s everything very right about where Perahia goes with the Goldbergs.

Agree on Murray Perahia! Excellent recording and probably well within top 5 from memory of the 2 dozen or so recordings we have...exceptionally execution. Really technical and emotive.

 

[tima]

I remember also seeing footage of Leonard Bernstein talking about his (at times uneasy) relationship with Glenn Gould and it was clear that while they saw the musical universe in different perspectives that Bernstein clearly championed the importance of us listening to what Gould was trying to say in his piano performances.

Yes. Though Bernstein and Gould worked well together when they recorded, they could struggle over who took the lead. The orchestra v the soloist in concertos is something that needs to be "worked out."

In his 4th Piano Concerto, Beethoven did something that was unique at the time. He started the Concerto with the pianist rather than with the orchestra. It was revolutionary times and Beethoven was in a mood to throw off the yoke of the collective to champion the hero, the individual, the soloist. I could sense Bernstein's reluctance to take Gould's pace in that piece when they performed together.

Beethoven - Piano Concerto No.4 in G major - The Audio Beat - www.TheAudioBeat.com

read audio reviews, ratings, and user opinions on audio equipment before you buy an audio system

www.theaudiobeat.com

Could you find a more self-confident looking pair?

 

[MtnHam]

?

I would like to get more into classical but haven't a clue as to what performers/recordings are worth the investment. I have blindly bought LPs of music by composers I like, probably chosen because of attractive covers, and been disappointed. Your insight from trial and error helps me save money and time so thank you. I very much appreciate your sharing on this forum.

AS Seasoned Audiophiles, What Have You Learned?​

My involvement in this hobby started in the early 60's with an interest in recorded music which led to wanting better sound. It has continued unabated ever since. My LP library now exceeds 6,000. A recent upgrade of my phono chain has caused me to revisit many long neglected recordings with new appreciation. 95% of my listening is classical and opera.

A lifetime subscription to Roon coupled with Qobuz and Tidal has allowed me to build many wonderful playlists, which transition automatically (at their end) to Roon Radio which has led to the discovery of many additions to my playlists, which has expanded my library exponentially. When reading reviews of gear and and/or new music, I often search Roon for the titles and immediately am able to listen to the recording, and often add it to my library. This has expanded my enjoyment of music and the hobby immensely.

As far as the gear two things stand out in my mind:
1. The importance of clean quiet power. This improves everything
2. The importance of vibration control. I use Stillpoints under almost everything. There are other devices and approaches that probably work just as well.

And then there is the room- its importance can not be overstated!