Audio McCarthyism

[Gregadd]

I clicked on a link at the of the Objectivist v Subjectivist article. This is quite an interesting article. It brings us to the notion that cables are a fraud and those that reccomend them could be prosecuted.
It as an article in Sterophile.

http://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/107/index.html

 

[Bruce B]

I clicked on a link at the of the Objectivist v Subjectivist article. This is quite an interesting article. It brings us to the notion that cables are a fraud and those that reccomend them could be prosecuted.
It as an article in Sterophile.

This was a '92 article.... the new cables are much better now!

 

[Bill Hart]

As long as it's not an oversized sugary soda, you're cool in NYC.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Fraud is a crime, counselor. How is that McCarthyism?

Tim

 

[Gregadd]

As long as it's not an oversized sugary soda, you're cool in NYC.

or trans fatty acid

 

[Gregadd]

Fraud is a crime, counselor. How is that McCarthyism?

Tim

Fraud is the enforcement mechanism.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Fraud is the enforcement mechanism.

What's it enforcing?

Tim

 

[Gregadd]

Read the article.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Read the article.

What I'm asking has nothing to do with the article. I'm not assuming that cables are fraud, I'm merely asking if fraud is a crime. You say it's an enforcement mechanism. I don't understand.

Tim

PS: I read the article. The testing was unforgivably sloppy. Dugan and AES clearly were driven by an agenda. "Audio McCarthyism" is still, IMO. irresponsible hyperbole. No one appeared to be behaving like an adult in this scenario.

 

[Randy Bessinger]

What I'm asking has nothing to do with the article. I'm not assuming that cables are fraud, I'm merely asking if fraud is a crime. You say it's an enforcement mechanism. I don't understand.

Tim

But is it "legitimate fraud"

 

[Gregadd]

Black letter law (dictionary type definition or statute) does not always give one a workable deifntion of all legal principals. Some infractions are regulatory, civil or criminal. A lot depends on the enforcemnt agency. Most regulatory agencys have no criminal enforcemnt power. They can make a referal to a law enforcement agnecy. False advertiisng is almost always a civil infraction. Fraud is usulally civil but can be criminal.

 

[Gregadd]

What I'm asking has nothing to do with the article. I'm not assuming that cables are fraud, I'm merely asking if fraud is a crime. You say it's an enforcement mechanism. I don't understand.

Tim
Merely accusing cables of being ineffective has no real effect. In order to intimidate manufacutrers and dealers there has to be some serious threat.
See http://www.stereophile.com/content/audio-mccarthyism-page-4

PS: I read the article. The testing was unforgivably sloppy. Dugan and AES clearly were driven by an agenda. "Audio McCarthyism" is still, IMO. irresponsible hyperbole. No one appeared to be behaving like an adult in this scenario.

McCarthy claimed to to investigate subversion. What he did was force citizens, who had every right under the first amendment to be a communist and associate with communist groups without intervention from the government, to declare thier beleifs and affiliations. The lists were then used as a basis for FBI intimidation and blacklisting to deny them of basic rights such as employmnet.
By anolgy the presence of Lopez was used as a similar intimidation factor. Threats were issued without any clear description of the behavior to be avoided.

 

[Ethan Winer]

The testing was unforgivably sloppy.

Yes, but so was the reporting. As soon as I read "listening-test 'expert' David Clark" with "expert" in quotes, the writer's bias was clear. Actually, the test might not be as "sloppy" as just unrealistic given the size of the room and number of people.

I have offered here numerous times to conduct a proper test, yet - amazingly - nobody has ever taken me up on it!

--Ethan

 

[Gregadd]

I personally think calling him a listening test expert was generous. David Clark is well known to most audiophiles. I would wager there is no generally accepted scientific field of listening test expert. Is there a, for instance an American Society of Listening Test Experts? Is there is a standard set of qualifications for such experts? Are there scientifc standards for conducting such tests? Is there a rigourous testing, licensing or certification for such experts? Is the test beyond the ability of an ordinary audiophile to administer?
The article is essentially an editorial or opinion column. It is generally expected that they take a position and defend it or attack it whatever the case maybe.

In the past Ethan has suggested involvemnt of State Attonreny Generals in these matters. Does that mean his opinion is automaticaly disqualifeid?

Edit: Just to be clear I beleive David Clark is highly respected in the audiophile community.

 

[FrantzM]

Who is David Clark?

 

[GaryProtein]

Who is David Clark?

I never heard of him either.

 

[mep]

Who is David Clark?

He is the one that gets the credit for the ABX switch box beloved by so many on this forum I do believe.

 

[Bruce B]

Is there a, for instance an American Society of Listening Test Experts? Is there is a standard set of qualifications for such experts? Are there scientifc standards for conducting such tests? Is there a rigourous testing, licensing or certification for such experts? Is the test beyond the ability of an ordinary audiophile to administer?

Tonemeister.. !!

 

[Bill Hart]

Isn't that sort of 'Expert Certification' implied by the labels of 'Editor's Choice' or 'Recommended Components' that we often see in the magazines? My biggest quarrel with those, apart from the fact that there seems to be little reason why some components or brands are omitted altogether (perhaps they refuse to permit their equipment to be reviewed) is that those lists are cobbled together from older and newish reviews and seem to have little coherence. An 'A' rated component from 10 years ago may or may not deserve that accolade now.
My favorite certification society is the 'AAAAA' which certifies Andouillette sausage in France. If you've ever dug into a real one, you see animal parts. That's the genuine article.

 

[JackD201]

Yes, but so was the reporting. As soon as I read "listening-test 'expert' David Clark" with "expert" in quotes, the writer's bias was clear. Actually, the test might not be as "sloppy" as just unrealistic given the size of the room and number of people.

I have offered here numerous times to conduct a proper test, yet - amazingly - nobody has ever taken me up on it!

--Ethan

Maybe if you published your protocol for scrutiny we would.