Audio Note UK vs Audio Japan Sonic Differences

[bonzo75]

Sorry typo, should read...... I don't believe 'Definitive Audio' are the Kondo Japan distributors any more !

yeah he is moved to canary audio I think

 

[adrianywu]

Sorry typo, should read...... I don't believe 'Definitive Audio' are the Kondo Japan distributors any more !

Yes, you are correct. Don't know the reason. I have not talked to Kevin about it.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

yeah he is moved to canary audio I think

I din't think so 'bonzo75' as I don't see 'Canary Audio' listed in Definitive Audio's 'Product Portfolio' on their web site.

 

[bonzo75]

I din't think so 'bonzo75' as I don't see 'Canary Audio' listed in Definitive Audio's 'Product Portfolio' on their web site.

that was what they were planning to show with, not sure if it changed

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Yes, you are correct. Don't know the reason. I have not talked to Kevin about it.

A wild guess.... It could be that Kevin didn't like the sound of the new generation of Kondo Japan products ?????

If you look Definitive Audio's 'Product Portfolio' listing on their web site, it looks like they have replaced Kondo Japan products with tube products from other companies.

Also at UK and the Munich Hifi Shows over the past couple or so years, Kevin has been displaying and using fantastic tube Phono Stage, tube Pre-Amp and 300B tube Power Amp products from 'SJS Electroacoustics' along with the lovely latest Kuzma and GrandPrix Audio TT set-up products, Consolidated Audio Berlin SUT's and his OBX RW4 and Auditorium range of speakers and this year is fantastic new R80 speakers.

 

[morricab]

Last couple years he has demoed smaller speakers with this SJS brand. Pricey but not quite Kondo pricey. He used their phono, pre and 300b amp.

 

[adrianywu]

A wild guess.... It could be that Kevin didn't like the sound of the new generation of Kondo Japan products ?????

If you look Definitive Audio's 'Product Portfolio' listing on their web site, it looks like they have replaced Kondo Japan products with tube products from other companies.

Also at UK and the Munich Hifi Shows over the past couple or so years, Kevin has been displaying and using fantastic tube Phono Stage, tube Pre-Amp and 300B tube Power Amp products from 'SJS Electroacoustics' along with the lovely latest Kuzma and GrandPrix Audio TT set-up products, Consolidated Audio Berlin SUT's and his OBX RW4 and Auditorium range of speakers and this year is fantastic new R80 speakers.

Yes, I do like the SJS electronics this year at Munich. Not sure about the new Kondo products, as what we use are all from Kondo San's era.

 

[Richard Austen]

Now you understand my ANUK issue. However, since I have never heard them in other than an all ANUK system it is not that easy to tease apart why the sound was "meh". I am speculating somewhat based what I know from design and other reviews where they were out of an all ANUK context. All low powered equipment needs to be matched properly (as do a lot of high sensitivity speakers), although that match is not always what one would expect...and sometimes the expected good match doesn't work so well.

I often take grief on forums for being rather pedantic about AN's full system sound but it largely stems from the belief that if a person agrees with me about SET amplifiers and likes speakers I like then it confuses me when that same person then doesn't like a speaker that I like. I scratch my head and conclude - well they heard what I liked in a different setup so who knows?

I remember a fellow on AA who badgered me for several years and I decided to post this here to illustrate my point about a poster called Old School's and how much he loathed AN UK's sound and me.

"All the AN equipment makes music, even inferior recordings, sound pleasant. Rolled off highs might make CDs tolerable, but, when I got the AN boys to play my vinyl records, they sounded BORING! Yes, the "Chet" vinyl record you admitted sounded vastly superior to the digital files you brought to the 2012 CAS, sounded BORING via the colored AN system. Plus, IMO, AN overprices their equipment..."

"I repeat: AN is a cult, and a horribly over-priced one!"

"Art thinks his E's, driven by the Shindo tubes, have correct impact, touch and humanness. Many of us find them colored and/or boring, and less than optimal on voices."

"Plus, the five times I have heard the Es, they sounded much like I would have predicted from JA's measurements: boomy bass, a power suckout, a midrange peak, and rolled-off highs. Boring compared to other speakers or to live music. Countless other speakers sound more alive."

TO

"I finally got to hear the Audio Note Es in their full glory. At previous shows, the AN Es sounded far too mellow with little impact and with colored sound. Here they were alive, dynamic, with correct tone and touch. I am talking about a HUGE difference.

"I have already commented on this room's wonderful sound. When playing at reasonable SPLs, this system had unlimited macro dynamics, detail, impact, and touch. Micro dynamics were also outstanding. You could see (hear?) Pepper Adams moving his baritone sax on his solo. Herbie Mann and Bill Evans supported with subtle shadings which were perfectly reproduced. Lots of components were of interest to me: the AN E Lexus ($8,772), AN Empress parallel single-ended 2A3 amps ($7,200/pair), AN M2 phono ($4,087)..."

"Well, you were right about the AN Es being world-class. The Music First room, with the E as their speaker, could play anything, pop, jazz, folk, trance or classical with lifelike dynamics and vanishing distortion. Check out that "affordable" SET AN amp the Music First boys were using. Those AN Es only need a few SET watts to really bloom. I bet the Es will be your reference for several decades!"


This is why I am quite patient with numerous posters on forums because I feel that, in fact, people do hear things the same way - and if they hear it, as Old School says "in their full glory" they will soon understand why there is an AN UK Cult.

I'd also like to say that in spite of this fellow's extreme anti-AN UK opinions and animosity toward me - he did in fact give them a fair shake. Several shakes in fact.

That's why I am always listening to planars and electrostatics because there is a massive cult around these speakers and while I have yet to be impressed by any of them - well one day, perhaps, I may hear them "in their glory". I have just heard far too many speakers sound like garbage at dealers and shows and then sound wonderful at other dealers and other shows. This applies to Kondo - it sounded quite good in Hong Kong (at an audio show no less) but sounded meh at an actual dealer where they should sound better.

Indeed, the entirety of the SET world is considered a cult to most audiophiles - how could anyone like these bad measuring amps? If they could only audition a SET in their glory they would understand.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Yes, I do like the SJS electronics this year at Munich. Not sure about the new Kondo products, as what we use are all from Kondo San's era.

I heard Kevin's (Definitive Audio) and Simon's (SJS Electroacoustics) amazing system with a Kuzma XL Air with Safir9 arm and GrandPrix Audio's new Monaco V3 with 4Point 14" arm at this years UK Hifi Show at Ascot Racecourse (amazing venue) with the new Living Voice R80 Speakers and a new (being launched) SJS Electroacoustics Model 10 Monoblock Valve Power Amps system.

I was in the room for over 3 hours as the music I was hearing was that fantastic (along with Kevin's excellent choice and selection of music from a broad range of genres). To my ears the best sounding system at the show !

 

[gian60]

In Italy ANUK and Kondo has the same distributor,and my friend since 40 years is the only and biggest seller of this 2 brand since 30 years and 80% of the system in all Italy,incuding big system with Kakura,Ongaku,G 1000,M 1000 ecc ecc,he made and also some ANUK with M 9 and M 10,Ongaku,ecc,ecc he made.

I bought from him in my life,M7,M7 ksl,M 10,Ge 1,Neiro,Neiro Silver,Kageki,Baransu,3 times Ongaku,Kaguon,SFZ,IOM,IO Limited.2 Souga

Here his customers in Italy want to buy 90% Kondo products and 10% ANUK products.
Not only for the sound that near all prefer sound from Kondo but also ANUK sound very well,but for the charme of AN Japan and his construction.
Also Kondo products can resale loosing very few,if you pay a good price,while ANUK are very difficult to resale because people dont want and can loose a lot of money.

Also for the crazy price ANUK has a very bad reputation,for exemple Kondo Ongaku 110.000 euro price list while Ongaku UK double price,speaker AN E,the cheap version are very good and good price,but the expensive are really ridicolous

My friend with M 1000 and Kagura bought the AN SEC,70.000 euro price list and no big difference from the cheapest,then change AN SEC to AN Sogon,200.000 euro price list and difference very small.

With some money and some products,for around 20.000 euro,my friend took AN SEC,then adding 20.000 euro plus SEC,total 40.000 euro took the AN Sogon that cost 200.000 euro.

My friend offer to me ANUK Kageki mono,seems new,cost 70/80.000 euro at 16.000 euro for exemple.

Also ANUK turntable top has the cost around 170.000 euro,absolutly ridicolous against Ginga that had price 150.000 euro.

ANUK has a very good sound but here has no market also a cheap price.

Instead AN UK OTO,ANE,all these cheap products are a competitive price and good sound

 

[bonzo75]

In Italy ANUK and Kondo has the same distributor,and my friend since 40 years is the only and biggest seller of this 2 brand since 30 years and 80% of the system in all Italy,incuding big system with Kakura,Ongaku,G 1000,M 1000 ecc ecc,he made and also some ANUK with M 9 and M 10,Ongaku,ecc,ecc he made.

I bought from him in my life,M7,M7 ksl,M 10,Ge 1,Neiro,Neiro Silver,Kageki,Baransu,3 times Ongaku,Kaguon,SFZ,IOM,IO Limited.2 Souga

Here his customers in Italy want to buy 90% Kondo products and 10% ANUK products.
Not only for the sound that near all prefer sound from Kondo but also ANUK sound very well,but for the charme of AN Japan and his construction.
Also Kondo products can resale loosing very few,if you pay a good price,while ANUK are very difficult to resale because people dont want and can loose a lot of money.

Also for the crazy price ANUK has a very bad reputation,for exemple Kondo Ongaku 110.000 euro price list while Ongaku UK double price,speaker AN E,the cheap version are very good and good price,but the expensive are really ridicolous

My friend with M 1000 and Kagura bought the AN SEC,70.000 euro price list and no big difference from the cheapest,then change AN SEC to AN Sogon,200.000 euro price list and difference very small.

With some money and some products,for around 20.000 euro,my friend took AN SEC,then adding 20.000 euro plus SEC,total 40.000 euro took the AN Sogon that cost 200.000 euro.

My friend offer to me ANUK Kageki mono,seems new,cost 70/80.000 euro at 16.000 euro for exemple.

Also ANUK turntable top has the cost around 170.000 euro,absolutly ridicolous against Ginga that had price 150.000 euro.

ANUK has a very good sound but here has no market also a cheap price.

Instead AN UK OTO,ANE,all these cheap products are a competitive price and good sound

thanks Gian as always a comprehensive review and real experience

 

[Tonari]

In Italy ANUK and Kondo has the same distributor,and my friend since 40 years is the only and biggest seller of this 2 brand since 30 years and 80% of the system in all Italy,incuding big system with Kakura,Ongaku,G 1000,M 1000 ecc ecc,he made and also some ANUK with M 9 and M 10,Ongaku,ecc,ecc he made.

I bought from him in my life,M7,M7 ksl,M 10,Ge 1,Neiro,Neiro Silver,Kageki,Baransu,3 times Ongaku,Kaguon,SFZ,IOM,IO Limited.2 Souga

Here his customers in Italy want to buy 90% Kondo products and 10% ANUK products.
Not only for the sound that near all prefer sound from Kondo but also ANUK sound very well,but for the charme of AN Japan and his construction.
Also Kondo products can resale loosing very few,if you pay a good price,while ANUK are very difficult to resale because people dont want and can loose a lot of money.

Also for the crazy price ANUK has a very bad reputation,for exemple Kondo Ongaku 110.000 euro price list while Ongaku UK double price,speaker AN E,the cheap version are very good and good price,but the expensive are really ridicolous

My friend with M 1000 and Kagura bought the AN SEC,70.000 euro price list and no big difference from the cheapest,then change AN SEC to AN Sogon,200.000 euro price list and difference very small.

With some money and some products,for around 20.000 euro,my friend took AN SEC,then adding 20.000 euro plus SEC,total 40.000 euro took the AN Sogon that cost 200.000 euro.

My friend offer to me ANUK Kageki mono,seems new,cost 70/80.000 euro at 16.000 euro for exemple.

Also ANUK turntable top has the cost around 170.000 euro,absolutly ridicolous against Ginga that had price 150.000 euro.

ANUK has a very good sound but here has no market also a cheap price.

Instead AN UK OTO,ANE,all these cheap products are a competitive price and good sound

Any nice speakers that got married with these mythic and wonderful pieces?!

 

[the sound of Tao]

In Italy ANUK and Kondo has the same distributor,and my friend since 40 years is the only and biggest seller of this 2 brand since 30 years and 80% of the system in all Italy,incuding big system with Kakura,Ongaku,G 1000,M 1000 ecc ecc,he made and also some ANUK with M 9 and M 10,Ongaku,ecc,ecc he made.

I bought from him in my life,M7,M7 ksl,M 10,Ge 1,Neiro,Neiro Silver,Kageki,Baransu,3 times Ongaku,Kaguon,SFZ,IOM,IO Limited.2 Souga

Here his customers in Italy want to buy 90% Kondo products and 10% ANUK products.
Not only for the sound that near all prefer sound from Kondo but also ANUK sound very well,but for the charme of AN Japan and his construction.
Also Kondo products can resale loosing very few,if you pay a good price,while ANUK are very difficult to resale because people dont want and can loose a lot of money.

Also for the crazy price ANUK has a very bad reputation,for exemple Kondo Ongaku 110.000 euro price list while Ongaku UK double price,speaker AN E,the cheap version are very good and good price,but the expensive are really ridicolous

My friend with M 1000 and Kagura bought the AN SEC,70.000 euro price list and no big difference from the cheapest,then change AN SEC to AN Sogon,200.000 euro price list and difference very small.

With some money and some products,for around 20.000 euro,my friend took AN SEC,then adding 20.000 euro plus SEC,total 40.000 euro took the AN Sogon that cost 200.000 euro.

My friend offer to me ANUK Kageki mono,seems new,cost 70/80.000 euro at 16.000 euro for exemple.

Also ANUK turntable top has the cost around 170.000 euro,absolutly ridicolous against Ginga that had price 150.000 euro.

ANUK has a very good sound but here has no market also a cheap price.

Instead AN UK OTO,ANE,all these cheap products are a competitive price and good sound

Thanks Gian,
That’s really helped clarify the difference for me. Kondo has always seemed more like the real deal for me. Kondo is the Bugatti and Anuk more like a Morgan. Not said as a disparaging thing for Anuk but just out of the ultimate authenticity of Kondo and its origination and standards it’s set itself at a different level.

I could imagine exploring the lower end of the Anuk gear tiers as good sound reflecting a very good standard of parts quality and so worth considering at that reasonably affordable end… but the instant we’re up to talking in Kondo price tags I’d only consider the real premium standard as Kondo… it’s set apart by everything about how it’s built and the clear design philosophy and in the Kondo approach to its ethos, the range and the lasting overall sense of quality and timelessness.

 

[rpk]

To relax in between, take a look at both audio aspirants (not at my place)

Rainer wishes all Kondo and AN-UK friends a relaxing weekend

 

[je2a3]

G.I.P. Laboratory Monitor 1s?

 

[rpk]

G.I.P. Laboratory Monitor 1s?

Hello je2a3,
G.I.P. Yes, although I can't remember the type. There still seems to be a super tweeter in place.
The crossovers, detail coordination still in progress (see photo) were probably an individually elaborate project.
A listening impression was made at the Dutch AN-UK importer.
Rainer

PS: The G.I.P. project is of course not specific to Kondo or AN-UK

 

[mtemur]

G.I.P. Yes, although I can't remember the type. There still seems to be a super tweeter in place.

I was there the other day, G.I.P. Laboratory in Seoul. Generally good sounding products but Mr. Jino, Joe doesn’t like triodes.

 

[bonzo75]

what speakers

I was there the other day, G.I.P. Laboratory in Seoul. Generally good sounding products but Mr. Jino, Joe doesn’t like triodes.

View attachment 120027
View attachment 120028 View attachment 120029

What speakers did you get to hear

 

[mtemur]

what speakers


What speakers did you get to hear

Altec VOTT from 50's but in a custom cabinet. They sound very smooth and realistic, no sign of horn character.


These Altec VOTT are from 60's and in original cabinet. A little bit better than the ones with custom cabinet IMHO.


The big one on the left is G.I.P. sounding very detailed and exotic to my ears. I believe they're RCA replica. Sorry only left speaker fit in the frame.


These strange looking speakers below are original Western Electric from 20's or 30's. You can see field coil and tube power supply. This one wasn't as resolving as the others to my ears but has a strange exotic character.

 

[mtemur]

In another store I liked those Western Electric speakers with Western Electric amplifiers and EMT 927 turntable. Everything there was original BTW. Sound was very good with WE. Unfortunately I couldn't get a chance to hear those big black RCAs at the back. There was a big Tannoy (Red monitors I believe) at every store I went just like EMT 927. I don't remember how many I have seen, probably 8 or 10.


Unfortunately those Westen Electric 555W drivers were not installed.




In another shop which is almost impossible to find there were Klangfilm Eurodyn speakers up for sale. Unfortunately they were not connected to an amplifier. There was also a Neumann VMS 70 lathe converted to a turntable.