Audio Science: Does it explain everything about how something sounds?
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Ok, then how does one isolate/parse out the sound of the amp changing from everything else changing....or even know if the amps changing, if everything else is changing?
Color me confused!
cheers,
AJ
Ok, so David said NO, David has not a shred of scientific fact, zero data, just anecdotes.
Thanks. The question was of course rhetorical.
I'll try again, do electronic components in a amplifier change temperature and parameters within the first hour of operation or not?
David, your frantic hand waving duly noted. The "factual" scientific evidence/data for sound please. TIA.
A condescending, arrogant reply and a silly emoji will only get you the curled hand up & down waiving that you duly noted! So will this kind of nonsense; The "factual" scientific evidence/data for sound please. You're in the wrong business if you need some non-existent measured data on what you should be able to hear objectively. Do you make your speakers from off the shelf, measured Parts Express kits or do you bother listening to your measurements?
david
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Ok, so David said NO, David has not a shred of scientific fact, zero data, just anecdotes.
Thanks. The question was of course rhetorical.
David, your frantic hand waving duly noted. The "factual" scientific evidence/data for sound please. TIA.
From the Soundfield website.........
An avid speaker builder since my EE college years, I have continued to learn and develop systems based on both the latest in psycho-acoustic perceptual research and hands on experience
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I just can't read threads such as this because all of it boils down to the same boring argument for me. I just don't believe one side knows it all. I was listening to music all afternoon which for me is what this hobby is all about not this silly bombastic chest thumping that goes on in a thread like this. Is there a winner ever declared
Ok, then how does one isolate/parse out the sound of the amp changing from everything else changing....or even know if the amps changing, if everything else is changing?
Color me confused!
cheers,
AJ
Rather than waste time explaining/arguing over my anecdotal experience it would be better for you to talk with Nelson Pass. He can give you the technical explanation you crave, but appear unable to comprehend.
"People are often interested in how long it takes for these amplifiers to break in. Perhaps a more salient question is how long does it take them to reach their sonic best after turn on. It takes about an hour for them to fully warm up, and this is where we adjust them first. Then we adjust them again and again over a couple of days, keeping the bias and offset in the sweet spot. Our environment is about 23 degrees Centigrade and the heat sinks will rise approximately 25 degrees C. above that, for an average on heat sink temperature of 48 degrees C. Sonically they are at their best when the heatsinks are approximately 50 degrees C."
https://passlabs.com/images/uploads/manual/x600_5-om.pdf
"Do the amps need to break in?
Yes. Most improvement comes in the first 24-36 hours, after which the amps will continue to improve as long as they are left on."
https://passlabs.com/technology/questions#q251
(Emphasis added.)
Interesting, Steve, that you would use the word 'boring' -- I wanted to post the same, and then I just read you using the word. AJ and others will never convince us, and we will never convince them. At some point it's just a boring debate, and listening to music, which I also did to my great pleasure and excitement this evening on my system that did a really fabulous job, is the much better pastime.
Having said that, there were a few interesting observations on this thread, but that was only a tiny fraction of the 92 pages so far.
Yes, and it is nice when you can change 'X' and the sound improves, even if it does measure the same with the rudimentary tools currently in use.
'Rudimentary' is the key word here. But hey, it's 'science', remember?
Being a scientist myself, I can only laugh about that.
Time to go to bed to get refreshed for another day of great music. Good Night.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I guess I prefer to listen to music than to read the same posts from the same participants with the same graphs over and over. I ordered a bunch of new music today, listened to a whole bunch more new music and the farthest thing from my mind was whether an amp sounds better after some warm up time. I for one believe that this is indeed the case. Certainly for my system it's the case
Good evening Tom. ...I bailed out of this thread...too "scientific" for my own musical taste...as today I was mainly listening to classical ? music...nothing astronomical but good enough for my soul...down to earth.
Hi
We must keep in mind that regardless of the subject and how it is debated Some could find it "boring". I share that this thread is boring but many do not and continue to make it a rather alive. Thus the debates.. the disagreement is what keep a debate alive. The congrats threads, as I call them, mostly die a quick death after many have congrats-tulate ... (misspelling is intentional).
I also think that this aversion for graphs is unwarranted .. They (Graphs) show in pictures what words cannot fully carry...
We must keep in mind that regardless of the subject and how it is debated Some could find it "boring". I share that this thread is boring but many do not and continue to make it a rather alive. Thus the debates.. the disagreement is what keep a debate alive. The congrats threads, as I call them, mostly die a quick death after many have congrats-tulate ... (misspelling is intentional).
I also think that this aversion for graphs is unwarranted .. They (Graphs) show in pictures what words cannot fully carry...
Good evening to you as well, Bob. Enjoy the music. That is, after all, what it boils down too.
Tom
Tom
"Audio Science: Does it explain everything about how something sounds?"
Absolutely, and without a doubt.
Save the fairy-tails for the little children.
Absolutely, and without a doubt.
Save the fairy-tails for the little children.
Frantz and Tom you are both right in your two different valid approaches.
And Frantz I am 100% with you, congrats!
But true; I much prefer explore in depth than just remaining @ the surface...because it's in the depth that we discover more...that our mind is the most active and adventurous.
Besides, audio forums are fun places to expand our mind...and to let it boil just right...with a controlled balance. ...Just a way of speech; it boils down to having a fruitful conversation/discussion into the dark/mysterious/beautiful/gloomy/obscure/indescribable audio world.
All the words in the world and all the science of the universe cannot convey and explain in absolute terms a musical/emotional impact that strikes the chord inside the soul of a man and a woman and a child. ...It's a magical secret that is inside all of us and vibrates on its own rhythm.
Take for example the stroke of a music composer directing a first grade orchestra with seventy musicians plus. ...@ the very opening, with his two arms raised up in the air, and with a baton in his left hand, he is the maestro who coordinates what is about to transfigure in one of the highest listening experience for all present in the hall to receive; the gift.
Can you measure or explain that to all the seats with all the people in them? ...No, because each seat is positioned @ a different spot and with a different person sitting in it.
And then, furthermore, when that crescendo hits and that tenor opera singer's voice reaches the deepest tones of its range...we are all trembling in total ecstasy of joy and emotional ripping tears straight to the heart, the essence of the main matter...the music performed my the artist musicians and tenor singer. ...It is live, without any amplification, without any loudspeakers, without any wires...only the hall's own acoustics are sufficient for both the music and the tenor to reach our ears and soul. ...That, is real life power.
There is just simply no way that you can replicate that @ home...just no way. ...A small classical chamber quartet, or smooth jazz band...better, but never the same.
We cannot afford to have a live band every day @ home, so short of that we create our owns. ...And that's why we're all here with all kind of audio gear and music recordings...in the quest to transpire with our replications and words of wisdom. ...All for the joy of music listening.
The microphone(s) is the first tool in the chain of music reproduction, and there are many type of microphones out there. ...And many techniques used by various music recordists. That's one important place where audio science is @ the periphery of its study.
And Frantz I am 100% with you, congrats!
But true; I much prefer explore in depth than just remaining @ the surface...because it's in the depth that we discover more...that our mind is the most active and adventurous.
Besides, audio forums are fun places to expand our mind...and to let it boil just right...with a controlled balance. ...Just a way of speech; it boils down to having a fruitful conversation/discussion into the dark/mysterious/beautiful/gloomy/obscure/indescribable audio world.
All the words in the world and all the science of the universe cannot convey and explain in absolute terms a musical/emotional impact that strikes the chord inside the soul of a man and a woman and a child. ...It's a magical secret that is inside all of us and vibrates on its own rhythm.
Take for example the stroke of a music composer directing a first grade orchestra with seventy musicians plus. ...@ the very opening, with his two arms raised up in the air, and with a baton in his left hand, he is the maestro who coordinates what is about to transfigure in one of the highest listening experience for all present in the hall to receive; the gift.
Can you measure or explain that to all the seats with all the people in them? ...No, because each seat is positioned @ a different spot and with a different person sitting in it.
And then, furthermore, when that crescendo hits and that tenor opera singer's voice reaches the deepest tones of its range...we are all trembling in total ecstasy of joy and emotional ripping tears straight to the heart, the essence of the main matter...the music performed my the artist musicians and tenor singer. ...It is live, without any amplification, without any loudspeakers, without any wires...only the hall's own acoustics are sufficient for both the music and the tenor to reach our ears and soul. ...That, is real life power.
There is just simply no way that you can replicate that @ home...just no way. ...A small classical chamber quartet, or smooth jazz band...better, but never the same.
We cannot afford to have a live band every day @ home, so short of that we create our owns. ...And that's why we're all here with all kind of audio gear and music recordings...in the quest to transpire with our replications and words of wisdom. ...All for the joy of music listening.
The microphone(s) is the first tool in the chain of music reproduction, and there are many type of microphones out there. ...And many techniques used by various music recordists. That's one important place where audio science is @ the periphery of its study.
Anyone bored with the can simply stop opening it. While I sometimes struggle with the information Amir shares in these threads, i appreciate and aspire to grasping every detail. I don't know if science explains everything. I know that in the face of it, I don't want to deny it because it is difficult or doesn't align with what I want to believe. I want to endeavor to understand it.
Thanks for every chart and data point.
Tim
Thanks for every chart and data point.
Tim
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