Audiophiles and our prejudices

....Prejudices carry to what medium we listen to. I have heard tales of Audiophiles fooled by this. They would see a TT and yet were listening to a CD and the whole lexicon of analog qualities would come upon listening to what they thought was a TT reproduction! I have personally seen audiophile fooled by non-swap in cables to say they did prefer Cable A to B or C when there were no change in cabling! I was one of them, this happened in my own house on my own system ... I came chastised, humbled and a intense non-believer in cables....

Just to add Frantz, this is a good example of what has been described as bias within A-B comparison.
It is scientifically known that if a listener is unsure of differences then they will instinctively guess on a choice, and was identified in most cases majority will go with A.
This is partially resolved by creating force choice situation, where the listener chooses and also states the difference, or chooses and states unsure or even cannot tell a difference.
This is a very simplistic example to the AB selection bias effect, the key IMO is self perception and understanding the mechanism in action, which can help.
In this case if the listener cannot differentiate then they need to overcome the heuristic-cognitive decision process that makes them choose A or B, so the answer would be cannot tell a difference.

Other factors-biases include that when we think something has changed even if we think they may sound the same we start to think they will be different, due to our thinking that a change has an affect.
There are a few others that we touched upon in a different thread in ABX on this very subject, think it was discussing it with Ethan.
But interestingly there is an example of a cable listen test on another forum-review publication where one did overcome the false change (the other 3 failed to note there was no difference while the one who passed said he could not tell a difference and so thought he failed).
Not bothering to link as what the test proves has to be taken as limited, such as this example.

Cheers
Orb
 
I'd go for the "Men in Black" aliens look.

vivid-speakers-L.jpg


They appear to be evolving.

Bill

I have only read/heard good things about these speakers... I am certain I will never acquire any of them. I find them almost repulsive.. Talk about prejudices :(
 
Well Frantz my friend, as they say hearing is believing and having heard these speakers now on 3 separate occasions I can say that they are the real deal but yes butt ugly

I know : Right? I really find them repulsive to the point of not wanting to audition them. I don't think I could live with them in my house; good sound and all...
 
According to Phillip O'Hanlon the shape of the speakers are designed that way for a purpose. I have yet to hear the TOL Giya but the other model even with its small size produces sound that fills a very large room quite effectively with remarkably good bass to boot
 
I know : Right? I really find them repulsive to the point of not wanting to audition them. I don't think I could live with them in my house; good sound and all...

The one we heard should be the red one in the picture. It's the one I called "eggs with legs." I too find the shape and overall look off-putting and since there are a gazillion speakers to choose from on the market, you may as well choose one that floats your boat both aesthetically and musically. The damn thing does sound real good though. Definitlely no parallel surfaces on the inside.
 
Even how we read his thread is dominated by prejudices, but as most of the time the prejudice is created from a large experience, the consequences are no so terrible. :)

Three examples of excellent sound from active speakers in this thread have a common point - a good preamplifier with a characteristic sound quality - the Antique Sound Lab preamp, the Mark Levinson ML7 and the Audio Research SP15 or the REF2. I have direct experience with the three later ones, and from the few times I listened to the Antique Sound Lab amplifiers I admit it has the characteristic "brand flavor".

A friend of mine owned the mark levinson ML7 and I have had it several times in my system. I could only admire it, as it was really expensive - it was so much better than other uints we had access that every system seemed to sound better using it. Meridian M1, M2 and M3 transfigured with it . After listening to them through the ML7 , the Meridian 101 preamplifier (btw, it was just a NE5532 IC amplifier in inverting configuration) sounded sterile and harsh.

A few people claim that they do not believe in preamplfier "magic". Admitting it would be letting an trojan horse go inside their audio fortresses. But curiously when you have an active speaker system, you seem to take advantage of the preamplifier more than ever.

As usual the importance of the system approach should be referred. Almost all modern high-end electronics and speakers are of excellent quality. But this does not mean that just picking any them you get a good system. Electronics, speakers, room and our preferences are a complex system and fine tuning it is not an easy task.

If there is something that I have learned in this hobby is that we should not say lightly that a unit is terrible - a typical and nasty audiophile addiction. It may sound terrible in a system with some recordings and sound fantastic in different conditions. However, prejudices can be created if by lack of luck we listen only to the poor performances of this unit.
 
We all carry around audiophile baggage prejudices whether we know it or care to admit it. These prejudices masquerade as dogma. We believe these prejudices to be infallible truths and we treat them as such. Sometimes like religious zealots, we try to convert others over to our “faith.”

I’m as guilty as anyone else is, although I have recently shed one of my biggest prejudices which was vacuum tubes. Just like a good Catholic believes in the Pope, I believed in vacuum tubes. It becomes far more than a personal choice at some point in time. You truly believe that only vacuum tubes can sound like live music. You feel it in your soul. You know you are “right.”

I have previously discussed how my tube dogma was mugged by some SS gear I bought on the cheap to hold me over while I was waiting for my tube gear to get upgraded and repaired. After the initial shock wears off, it can feel liberating to let your prejudices go.

Prejudices can be like addictions. Just because you wean yourself off your prejudice doesn’t mean that it won’t find you again in the future and hook you all over again. It might happen to me again with tubes at some point. In the meantime, I’m still carrying around plenty of other audiophile prejudices. There is no shortage of them afterall.
 
It may sound terrible in a system with some recordings and sound fantastic in different conditions.

Unless that's just a terrible recording, I would consider this a terrible flaw; a deal-breaker. The same goes for components with extreme synergy needs, ie: they sound great if paired with just the right stuff, terrible if not very carefully matched. This is a point of view, not a religion, but I see that as a component that doesn't work well within normal ranges and doesn't function well with other components that do. I understand that very carefully integrated into the right system (usually of same-brand components), these things can work. But I'm not in this to solve puzzles; that model doesn't work for me at all. YMMV.

One of my prejudices revealed.

Hey! We could all fess up to a prejudice we have that may or may not be true. I think it has taken a lot of courage on Mark's part to publicly chronicle his tube to SS saga. It would take even more to admit that a current pet thing is a pet thing, not necessarily the Truth.

True Confessions? Truth or Dare? Anyone?

Tim
 
We all carry around audiophile baggage prejudices whether we know it or care to admit it. These prejudices masquerade as dogma. We believe these prejudices to be infallible truths and we treat them as such. Sometimes like religious zealots, we try to convert others over to our “faith.”

I’m as guilty as anyone else is, although I have recently shed one of my biggest prejudices which was vacuum tubes. Just like a good Catholic believes in the Pope, I believed in vacuum tubes. It becomes far more than a personal choice at some point in time. You truly believe that only vacuum tubes can sound like live music. You feel it in your soul. You know you are “right.”

I have previously discussed how my tube dogma was mugged by some SS gear I bought on the cheap to hold me over while I was waiting for my tube gear to get upgraded and repaired. After the initial shock wears off, it can feel liberating to let your prejudices go.

Prejudices can be like addictions. Just because you wean yourself off your prejudice doesn’t mean that it won’t find you again in the future and hook you all over again. It might happen to me again with tubes at some point. In the meantime, I’m still carrying around plenty of other audiophile prejudices. There is no shortage of them afterall.

A deeply profound post. Kudos.
 
Well Frantz my friend, as they say hearing is believing and having heard these speakers now on 3 separate occasions I can say that they are the real deal but yes butt ugly

Steve, are those Vivid Audio speakers?

Because if they are, the Vivid B1 ($14,990/pair) was reviewed in the October's 2011 issue of Stereophile by John Atkinson (page 136).
 
The one we heard should be the red one in the picture. It's the one I called "eggs with legs." I too find the shape and overall look off-putting and since there are a gazillion speakers to choose from on the market, you may as well choose one that floats your boat both aesthetically and musically. The damn thing does sound real good though. Definitlely no parallel surfaces on the inside.

That's the one! ...The Vivid Audio B1. :)
 
Tim,
Are you starting your campaign for the presidency of Audiophiles Anonymous? :)

I have no political ambitions, but I do believe it could be a useful, busy organization!

OK. I'll play my own game. I've made no secret that I'm a fan of active systems, and while I think the elimination of passive crossovers and the more direct driver control has a positive effect, I believe most of the advantage can be gained in passive systems if you throw enough iron and money at it. I think that advantage is simple: Headroom. I believe in mass quantities of the stuff, and I'm absolutely convinced I can hear it working in high-powered systems, both passive and active. And I'm absolutely convinced that I hear something wrong with low-powered passive systems (and it doesn't have to be very low for me to call it that).

I have absolutely nothing substantive to back that up. I've never tested it blind. I just know. And believe. And, perhaps, I hear what I expect to hear. I'm a headroom bigot.

Tim
 
Tim,

Your point looses definition as you seem to separate power (an amplifier attribute) from the efficiency or sensitivity of the speaker. What do you refer to when you say "Low powered passive systems"? A 15 watt amplifier with a 86dB speaker ?

Headroom can be a very difficult property to debate. IMHO it is much more than clipping behavior.
 
(...) I’m as guilty as anyone else is, although I have recently shed one of my biggest prejudices which was vacuum tubes. Just like a good Catholic believes in the Pope, I believed in vacuum tubes. It becomes far more than a personal choice at some point in time. You truly believe that only vacuum tubes can sound like live music. You feel it in your soul. You know you are “right.”

Mep,
Did you really believe that all audiophiles who listened using SS devices would go to Hell? :)
 
I have absolutely nothing substantive to back that up. I've never tested it blind. I just know. And believe. And, perhaps, I hear what I expect to hear. I'm a headroom bigot.

Tim

not biting.:eek:

My experience with dynamics involves a crossover-less design. Bi-amped with a sub.
 

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